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  • Spacers Vs. Pushing Rod

    Wow, I'm confused. So here's how I've come to understand bi-directional tension. From what I know, it is called bi-directional because there is a pulling and a pushing action, which is caused by pulling the skin onto the body of the cone, and retaining it there, and using a number of methods (In my case fixed pusher displacement) to both "pull" the skin up and "push" the glans away. But now there seems to be a strange caveat. Barring external sources of tension, like straps or weights, the TLC-X seems to provide two main methods of self-contained bi-directional tension. One is the rod, which can be used to pull the skin out towards its end, while simultaneously pushing the glans back with the pusher. The other method is to use spacer disks to cause the initial skin to have to be pulled up more, which for me ends up pushing the glans back somewhat as it makes contact with the pusher.

    Now that I'm a little more grown out, I've been trying out the TLC Selects, with the thought in mind that it would be appropriate for the length that I can initially get on the cone, in addition to the pushing and pulling action of the rod. Now what I find is that with the more spacers I use, the less I can push on the rod itself, without pushing the glans back too far. The problem is, I don't know whether I should sacrifice spacer or pushing rod tension. I know that the base TLC-X, without spacers, comes with a rod that measures about 2 cm past the handle. There is also a longer rod, but I assume this is supplied for tugging with rubber bands or some amount of spacers. So is this the proper pushing amount to use in relation to the pulling tension? Put as many spacers until I can get about 2 cm worth of pushing tension while still being comfortable with how far back the glans is being pushed?

    See, I know that if I pull the skin over, say, 21 mm of spacers and retain without any pushing of the rod, it should technically be about the same as if I were to have no spacers, but push the rod back 21 mm. The glans and the edge of the skin tube are the same distance apart right? So is the difference just cosmetic?

    I know there is supposed to be a future flaccid rollover point, but the links on how to calculate this seem to have disappeared. And even if I was able to calculate it, I'm still not sure exactly how this would help me determine what ratio of inner: outer tension to use. The pusher is designed to increased inner tension, correct? And that would make the spacers helpful for targeting outer and inner, since both have to be pulled onto the cone initially? I get that it is supposed to be cosmetically better to use the spacers. But I don't want to completely sacrifice the pushing rod tension, because that helps me get some extra tension beyond what I can get while applying the device.

    So again, does it actually matter, other than cosmetically, whether I use the spacers or the rod to distance the skin from the glans? If not, I think I would be pretty happy with about 2 cm of pushing rod tension, to top it off, after applying the device. Also, any resources there are on calculating your FFRP would be very helpful.

  • #2
    Originally posted by StemCellRestoration View Post
    it is called bi-directional because there is a pulling and a pushing action, which is caused by pulling the skin onto the body of the cone, and retaining it there, and using a number of methods (In my case fixed pusher displacement) to both "pull" the skin up and "push" the glans away. But now there seems to be a strange caveat. Barring external sources of tension, like straps or weights, the TLC-X seems to provide two main methods of self-contained bi-directional tension. One is the rod, which can be used to pull the skin out towards its end, while simultaneously pushing the glans back with the pusher. The other method is to use spacer disks to cause the initial skin to have to be pulled up more, which for me ends up pushing the glans back somewhat as it makes contact with the pusher.
    I think of bi-directional tension this way:
    - One direction is pulling AWAY from the body. That is mostly accomplished with external sources (straps, weights). The application technique can contribute to this also, if you force skin up into gripping territory and trap it there with some tension by gripping the skin with the retaining cone before it slips out of reach. This "away" tension can impact both the skin that is worn facing inward and the skin that is facing outward. The simple TLC Tugger can provide this sort of tension. When a force pulls on the tugging handle, the device displaces creating a new length for the elastic region of skin between the gripping point and the base of the penis and for the elastic region of skin between the gripping point and the sulcus.

    - The other direction is pushing TOWARD the glans. This is effected using a moving part which I call the Pusher. Extending it after application creates tension in the skin that faces inward, between the sulcus and the gripped roll-over point in the skin tube during wear. (Note that the location of this roll-over point is not necessarily the same as the location of your present or eventual flaccid hanging roll-over point.) Believe it or not, the toward-the-glans component of tension can even be negative; some guys here have asked how to get zero inner-side tension, and they can do this by PRE-extending the Pusher (maybe up to 1/4") before application, and then pulling it back to the neutral position after application.

    The spacers are separate issue. With or without spacers, all the above applies. Spacers (or longer Pushers) are used to alter the baseline length of the device. When you make the device longer, then when you're rolling your skin up onto the device you run out of available slack skin sooner, so the induced roll-over point will shift to a new spot along your skin tube and you'll be gripping a different region of skin. Simple TLC Tuggers are available in lengths https://tlctugger.com/?s=stretch+body&post_type=product to achieve this level of control. With the TLC-X https://tlctugger.com/product/tlc-x-...le-tugger-kit/ or the new TLC Packer/Stacker https://tlctugger.com/product/vlc-packer-stacker-kit/ you can fine-tune the device length in 3mm increments using the included TLC Selects spacers. You thus have control over which part of your skin tube is comfortably worn at the skinniest part of the device. Sometimes it just helps to try a new skin placement in a situation where you're suddenly finding it harder to wear the device comfortably. Some guys exploit this feature to carefully target a specific constant region of skin to always be worn at the skinny part of the device.

    Originally posted by StemCellRestoration View Post
    the more spacers I use, the less I can push on the rod
    Yeah, that makes sense. You use up available slack when you add spacers. The AMOUNT of tension is not strictly less just because you're extending the Pusher a smaller distance.

    Originally posted by StemCellRestoration View Post
    Put as many spacers until I can get about 2 cm worth of pushing tension while still being comfortable with how far back the glans is being pushed?
    A simple scheme is to add spacers until you can just tickle some of the collet with your skin during an application attempt.

    Originally posted by StemCellRestoration View Post
    if I pull the skin over, say, 21 mm of spacers and retain without any pushing of the rod, it should technically be about the same {tension} as if I were to have no spacers, but push the rod back 21 mm.
    Depends on how you apply it in each case. But for sure you'd be forcing a different part of your skin tube into the gripped skin zone.

    Originally posted by StemCellRestoration View Post
    So is the difference just cosmetic?
    I feel choosing a specific induced roll-over point can have an effect on the cosmetic quality of your outcome.

    Originally posted by StemCellRestoration View Post
    there's a future flaccid rollover point, but the links on how to calculate this seem to have disappeared.
    The FFRP calculating spreadsheet is here: https://tlctugger.com/ffrp-calculations/ Do the described measurements and plug them in. The result tells you - on the assumption that all your tensioned skin will expand uniformly - where on your skin tube to mark a Future Flaccid Roll-over Point. That is, with this formula we're determining where along your present skin tube length the future flaccid roll-over point will fall, so you could alter your device's length to let that targeted spot be comfortably worn at the skinniest part of the device, in hopes that you'll wind up with a neat natural-looking pucker.

    Originally posted by StemCellRestoration View Post
    help me determine what ratio of inneruter tension to use.
    Right. You would apply the device and add Pushing (inner) tension and strapped or weighted (outer) tension. But nothing about the formula or the device helps you know that either or both of those is sufficient while not being excessive.

    For any tension source I recommend using the 4-Hour Rule https://tlctugger.com/4-hour-rule/ to fine-tune the amount of tension. PAIN - that sets in before your intended wear duration has elapsed - is the most common "violation" of the rule. I think only tugging experience will guide you about whether it's the inner tension, the outer tension, or both that need an adjustment when you experience such a violation.

    Originally posted by StemCellRestoration View Post
    I get that it is supposed to be cosmetically better to use the spacers. But I don't want to completely sacrifice the pushing rod tension
    In ANY configuration and with ANY tension source, I say use the 4-Hour Rule. Regardless of the device length setup, you will tend toward a tension setting that gives the same STRESS in the skin if you follow it. Pushing rod displacement being greater does not automatically mean stress in the skin is greater.
    -Ron Low
    [email protected]
    847 414-1692 Chicago

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    • #3
      Okay, thanks for that. I do understand it better now. I'm just wondering, do rubber bands or springs count as "pulling" tension? It seems like they would kind of go in both directions. But I assume they are more akin to the pushing tension that is fixed pusher displacement. So is an external source like a strap necessary for significant pulling tension?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by StemCellRestoration View Post
        do rubber bands or springs count as "pulling" tension?
        They create pushing force.

        Originally posted by StemCellRestoration View Post
        is an external source like a strap necessary for significant pulling tension?
        Yes, that's what I'm saying. Tension in the outer-facing skin is more challenging to get with only pushing, since the application step is when you can trap that skin under tension.
        -Ron Low
        [email protected]
        847 414-1692 Chicago

        Comment


        • #5
          "The FFRP calculating spreadsheet is here: https://tlctugger.com/ffrp-calculations/ Do the described measurements and plug them in. The result tells you - on the assumption that all your tensioned skin will expand uniformly - where on your skin tube to mark a Future Flaccid Roll-over Point. That is, with this formula we're determining where along your present skin tube length the future flaccid roll-over point will fall, so you could alter your device's length to let that targeted spot be comfortably worn at the skinniest part of the device, in hopes that you'll wind up with a neat natural-looking pucker."

          Ron, is there a video demonstrating the FFRP? I think I may need to double check them as with an erection the "future rollover point" seems very close to my glands and is part of the scar skin. I will check that against flaccid measurements too, but if it is accurate I don't think I want scar skin on the outside at the pucker. Do you have any thoughts?


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          • #6
            Originally posted by Wadoguy View Post
            I may need to double check them as with an erection the "future rollover point" seems very close to my glans and is part of the scar skin. I will check that against flaccid measurements too, but if it is accurate I don't think I want scar skin on the outside at the pucker. Do you have any thoughts?
            My thought is that you are probably not measuring the same attributes I envisioned to feed the formula. We should talk.
            -Ron Low
            [email protected]
            847 414-1692 Chicago

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by admin View Post

              My thought is that you are probably not measuring the same attributes I envisioned to feed the formula. We should talk.
              Thank you for that Ron. I double checked my measurements. I think my issue was that I was not 100% flaccid at first, which skewed the figures. Now them seem more reasonable. So now that I have the measurements for where that future flaccid rollover point will be the goal is to stretch the skin consistently so that point is at the collet taper point (smallest diameter). So as I add spacers with skin tube growth, I just add them to keep the diameter of the skin tube more uniform, right? Or are the spacers going to be needed once I get the ffrp where I want it and still need skin growth; ie will use the spacers for more internal skin growth by using the spacers?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Wadoguy View Post

                Thank you for that Ron. I double checked my measurements. I think my issue was that I was not 100% flaccid at first, which skewed the figures. Now them seem more reasonable. So now that I have the measurements for where that future flaccid rollover point will be the goal is to stretch the skin consistently so that point is at the collet taper point (smallest diameter). So as I add spacers with skin tube growth, I just add them to keep the diameter of the skin tube more uniform, right? Or are the spacers going to be needed once I get the ffrp where I want it and still need skin growth; ie will use the spacers for more internal skin growth by using the spacers?
                Once you know the location of your target ffrp, you use more or fewer spacers any time you find the target spot of skin is not comfortably worn at the skinniest part of the tugger's body.
                -Ron Low
                [email protected]
                847 414-1692 Chicago

                Comment


                • #9
                  Just grow skin for now. There is plenty of time to fine tune things way past the 1/2 way point. KOT!

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