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DTR & PoE - Introductory Questions

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  • DTR & PoE - Introductory Questions

    Glad to see this site is back, the previous one was a huge resource for me when I began a year or so ago.

    Background: Stretched a little in the beginning (year ago), loosened some skin up. Did on and off t-taping with tension for a bit (maybe 20 days total, sporadically?). Bought a DTR. Basically a CI 1 or 2, cut high and tight (a lot of inner skin remains, but very little outer, scar line is very close to body). Initial DTR use was with t-tapes, put t-tapes up into the bell to get tension. Was a good workaround. Did this for a bit, but taping is a huge pain. Started back up again with the DTR and found that I do have enough skin to use without tape, this was a huge success. I now have a great device that I can use all the time without any difficult or personal impact.

    But now I have some questions. I understand the basics of poe emphasis and how to adjust for certain targets: pull more outer, get more outer growth, etc.

    What I'm confused about is end result. I'm still extremely early in the process, so I'm not worried about this, I just want to know what the end product is. With DTR I've always got tension on both, but I get that I can slightly emphasize inner or outer as I please (technique or placement). I also understand that having a lot of inner skin is a great thing later on in restoration, more intact inner mucousal layers for a restored "environment."

    But... and I've seen a lot of restoration photos and not seen this.... what happens if you have too much inner growth and not enough outer growth? What would it look like? Pink inner skin exposed at the tip (thinking fully restored), with thicker shaft skin a little ways below opening on outside?

    Are there any specific concerns I should be aware of? I'm sure my situation (high and tight is not completely uncommon), but all the photos I see are generally of people beginning with low/tight or low/loose, not the high varieties.

    Any thoughts on specific concerns for the high and tight? Specific goals?

    Thank you!

  • #2
    If you have that much inner skin, you only need to grow outer. Don't even use the pusher on the DTR. In fact you can remove it all together and use the tugger body alone with a strap around your leg for tension.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by dc101 View Post
      Glad to see this site is back, the previous one was a huge resource for me when I began a year or so ago.

      Background: Stretched a little in the beginning (year ago), loosened some skin up. Did on and off t-taping with tension for a bit (maybe 20 days total, sporadically?). Bought a DTR. Basically a CI 1 or 2, cut high and tight (a lot of inner skin remains, but very little outer, scar line is very close to body). Initial DTR use was with t-tapes, put t-tapes up into the bell to get tension. Was a good workaround. Did this for a bit, but taping is a huge pain. Started back up again with the DTR and found that I do have enough skin to use without tape, this was a huge success. I now have a great device that I can use all the time without any difficult or personal impact.

      But now I have some questions. I understand the basics of poe emphasis and how to adjust for certain targets: pull more outer, get more outer growth, etc.

      What I'm confused about is end result. I'm still extremely early in the process, so I'm not worried about this, I just want to know what the end product is. With DTR I've always got tension on both, but I get that I can slightly emphasize inner or outer as I please (technique or placement). I also understand that having a lot of inner skin is a great thing later on in restoration, more intact inner mucousal layers for a restored "environment."

      But... and I've seen a lot of restoration photos and not seen this.... what happens if you have too much inner growth and not enough outer growth? What would it look like? Pink inner skin exposed at the tip (thinking fully restored), with thicker shaft skin a little ways below opening on outside?

      Are there any specific concerns I should be aware of? I'm sure my situation (high and tight is not completely uncommon), but all the photos I see are generally of people beginning with low/tight or low/loose, not the high varieties.

      Any thoughts on specific concerns for the high and tight? Specific goals?

      Thank you!
      Ok, a job for Info's focus here:

      You "stretched" skin but it didn't stay that way permanently, so it didn't "loosen up". You grew some skin. So congratulations.

      If you think you have enough inner tissue, then (as you know) you focus on shaft skin, any way you can. The so-called POE concept (assuming we are singing out of the same song book here; there are several different meanings) is a hypothetical ideal, without much of a part to play in the real world. So you need to understand that first.

      What actually happens is that any shaft skin you grow will, when you have enough of it, double over at the scar because that's where the shaft skin ends. This assures that there will be no exposed inner tissue at the tip. Need some emphasis here. I know this is hard to see, especially if you have that POE idea in your mind, but what I'm saying here is true. There is no other way to it. So...grow enough and all of your inner tissue will be covered, with shaft skin, as will your sulcus, corona, and glans. If you grow any additional inner tissue it will be at the scar line, opposite the end of the shaft skin so it will be covered over with shaft skin. This means: no worries.

      I should say: the above should be your strategy, at least for now. When you get closer to your end goal, you'll see what you will have to do.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for the help and info.

        Just a recap from Info's post to make sure I'm understanding things correctly...

        On a restored foreskin, the tip (full rollover) is essentially the old scar: the point where inner and outer foreskin (the different tissues) meet. This seems to make sense, as they're very different tissues. This is why you won't have inner foreskin poking out... it'll always be outer.

        This seems to clarify what poe is and isn't. Seems just a measure of equal tension for tuggers, moving higher or lower for different inner/outer focus.

        My recap isn't perfectly clear, but your comments do make me think differently about that point in restoration when you start getting rollover. For instance, you could have a ton of inner skin, but not enough outer (shaft) skin... so your scar line can't actually go past your glans. Once you have enough outer (shaft) skin, the scar line would be further down the glans... thus rollover.

        So a concluding question... in every (or lets say most all) photos of restored guys, with partial or full coverage, if you were to lift the covered outer skin up from the glans, directly underneath would be pink inner skin? The tip always being the changeover point from rough outer to pink inner.

        Thanks for humoring me!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dc101 View Post
          Thanks for the help and info.

          Just a recap from Info's post to make sure I'm understanding things correctly...

          On a restored foreskin, the tip (full rollover) is essentially the old scar: the point where inner and outer foreskin (the different tissues) meet. This seems to make sense, as they're very different tissues. This is why you won't have inner foreskin poking out... it'll always be outer.

          This seems to clarify what poe is and isn't. Seems just a measure of equal tension for tuggers, moving higher or lower for different inner/outer focus.

          My recap isn't perfectly clear, but your comments do make me think differently about that point in restoration when you start getting rollover. For instance, you could have a ton of inner skin, but not enough outer (shaft) skin... so your scar line can't actually go past your glans. Once you have enough outer (shaft) skin, the scar line would be further down the glans... thus rollover.

          So a concluding question... in every (or lets say most all) photos of restored guys, with partial or full coverage, if you were to lift the covered outer skin up from the glans, directly underneath would be pink inner skin? The tip always being the changeover point from rough outer to pink inner.

          Thanks for humoring me!
          Here's the thing: restoration is always a little more, and a lot less, complicated than a lot of guys realize, so I'll put what I know into sequential points:

          1. Nobody wants inner skin (mucosa) to be on the outside. It is always more sensitive, even when it's dried and toughened, and of course it has the potential to give a lot more sensation when it's covered. As it turns out, exposed mucosa will probably never be something that happens easily because most of us don't have the mucosa arrangement you have, so it's not an issue because it's not easily arrived at.

          2. Some guys use the scar line as the so-called "tip" of the temporary skin tube. It's really been kind of an ideal strategy, with "ideal" meaning it was where everybody thought they had to start (from the old T tape days). Greg b says he's done this, so he can tell about his experiences. But I've never used this strategy, for two reasons: it has always hurt to tug on mucosa, more than I wanted to tolerate, so I didn't try this for very long (except for a few months of experimentation), and it seemed to me that it would take much, much longer this way. I think this might be true for you as well, from a practical standpoint. For me at least, gaining mucosa apparently takes way longer (I did gain just a bit, but totally unintentionally), and it isn't clear to me that mucosa responds quite the same way as shaft skin. So.....

          3. I chose to focus on shaft skin. I knew it was "programmed" to respond to cycles of tension, by growing more of itself. That is skin's natural response, so it happens slowly, but surely. So while I did this, I observed that......

          4. Because shaft skin stops at the scar line, the scar, and any forward mucosa (shaft mucosa, sulcus, corona, glans), would be covered by more and more new shaft skin as more and more shaft skin grew; so I knew I would get coverage of all my existing mucosa that way when I doubled shaft skin over to roll down into a "tube";

          5. I observed that the "tube" that eventually seemed to form wasn't an actual tube at all, it was just loose, new, shaft skin that could be rolled down. It took the shape of a temporary tube because the shaft itself is a cylinder. So I realized that technically speaking there isn't really a permanent "tip" (because the "tube" isn't permanent), so nobody has to worry about that;

          6. When I reached my end goal of flaccid coverage (and then some) I was already deeply into the return of sensation (pleasure) and function (cross membrane passing of fluid which kept my existing mucosa "wet". And I noticed....

          7. That the "tip" of that temporary tube narrowed down, when I had enough shaft skin. So it virtually never pulls back nowadays, unless I pull it back, and even then, depending on temperature and how sticky the "wet" is, it takes some force to pull it back. So.........voila, a so-called "foreskin". Looks like one (thankfully my doubled over shaft skin always stayed thin), acts to an extent like one, and allows me to feel much sensation. I also noticed that sensation grew over time to a level I didn't think possible, so I can only assume that it isn't just about "parts" (as an old forum member used to say) it's about the brain's interpretation of those parts. Yay! Ended up ahead of the game.

          If you want to use the scar line as the "tip", then that's a strategy available to you, but even if you want to do this, you don't have to begin with it. You can, and in my opinion, should, begin with a focus on shaft skin. Shaft skin should always be the "outside" of the temporary tube. You can fine tune your focus much later, years from now, and still reach that ideal end goal, and have coverage while you do it.

          But the choice is yours.

          Comment


          • #6
            I should add (because it was referred to), just for the technically inclined: tugging is way less precise than most realize. So, generally speaking, nobody needs to worry about precision during most of this process.

            We tend to think of parts and zones on the penis as distinct, and therefore almost stationary, especially when they are under tension. But they aren't. When we pull forward, out to the "sides", or back, all of the tissues (skin, mucosa) are deflected by tension; they are all pulled out of place and out of shape, so where one zone stops doesn't matter so much. To think that some specific device designed to focus on one zone of the penis more than another (or both equally, for that matter), isn't quite the situation you actually see. Just pulling forward (as an example) on shaft skin is also to pull on shaft mucosa (if you have any), and it pulls on the frenulum remnant as well; it deflects all tissues especially if you've tried to fix one of those zones in place. In other words the stretchiest tissue gives first, and they're all the stretchiest : ). These areas and zones can be looked at as distinct landmarks, but they aren't stationary, and they are all continuous with each other, and because these zones and tissues are all very stretchy, they don't just sit there. Tension may or may not effect a response on that zone, but they are all defected to one degree or another. I don't expect most guys to get much from this (some don't want to know), and you don't have to. Tugging is the kickstarter, nature does all the rest.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thank you for taking the time to write this, it definitely clarifies my initial confusion.

              Thanks for the help!

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