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  • Skin thickness

    Question for those of you that have been tugging for awhile. As the skin "grows"...does it eventually "thin out"? I have definite rollover when seated, and my corona is covered fairly well when standing. The "new"skin that I've developed is thicker than an intact penis. I'm happy with my progress (having restarted tugging after a several year break), but wonder if the skin will thin?

  • #2
    1. Your shaft skin is thicker than an intact penis in the same area; no if, ands or buts. Shaft skin on an intact penis is a layer of epidermis (thickness same as yours) fused to a layer of mucosal tissue, which is very thin. This fused arrangement makes up a single layer.

    2. Your second layer is another layer of epidermis, made up of epidermis, underlying connective tissue, blood supply, etc, just like the "top" layer, and it is temporarily rolled over into two non-fused layers in order to make a "tube". Voila: thicker; can't be anything else but thicker.

    3. Some finished guys have noticed that their shaft skin eventually did loose a bit of swelling due to any lingering edema finally resolving. The edema (fluid which comes out of the blood supply and goes into the tissues) came from the minor trauma that tugging represents. But when it goes away, you still have two completely different layers, non fused and easily unrolled back into general shaft skin.

    But if you want your penis to look just like an intact penis, it will come close, generally speaking, but it won't be exact, and of course it will be missing some features that an intact penis has. You are expanding shaft skin, not creating a "tube" in any way, and certainly not creating a tube with only one layer.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by TRG View Post
      Question for those of you that have been tugging for awhile. As the skin "grows"...does it eventually "thin out"? I have definite rollover when seated, and my corona is covered fairly well when standing. The "new"skin that I've developed is thicker than an intact penis. I'm happy with my progress (having restarted tugging after a several year break), but wonder if the skin will thin?
      Congratulations on your progress so far! Since you are seeing progress, you know you must be doing something right.

      Yes, the new thicker foreskin tissue does eventually slim down, but only after you reach your goal and cease tugging in the long term.

      Tugging induces swelling and edema - signs of inflammation - in the tissue. This makes every restorer fear that he is going to end up with an unattractive floppy foreskin. But believe me, it doesn’t happen. It always slims sown in the end once you cease tugging long term.

      Another phenomenon that strikes fear into just about every restorer’s heart at some time during the course of his restoration is that, after you stop tugging, the swelling actually goes up for a period of days or weeks (For me, it was 5 days.) before it goes down. So a restorer who only takes short vacations of a period of days from tugging becomes convinced that he will end up with a floppy foreskin because he only sees the swelling and edema go up when he takes his device off.

      It often takes a full year for the expanded tissue to normalize and slim down to 95% of your final result. The wonderful thing about this though, is you are seeing slow but constant progress in the form of a normalization while you are doing absolutely nothing!

      Swelling and edema are enemies of tissue expansion. One simple way to deal with the swelling problem is to massage your foreskin whenever you take a hot bath. However, this only gives very temporary relief.

      I think that retention when not tugging may also help keep the accumulation of edema in tissue down.

      The correct vibes help bring down tissue inflammation in a big way:
      We know from the scientific literature, that cells experimentally subjected to cyclic stretching synthesize and release growth factors and anti-inflammatory mediators into the growth medium they are in. These growth factors and anti-inflammatory mediators then act upon the cells that originally synthesized and released them (autocirne stimulation), as well as acting upon neighboring cells. The frequency of the cyclic stretch doesn’t seem to matter much. Everything from very high frequency vibrations to cycles taking seconds seems to work. This has led to attempts find or develop a practical mechanical cyclic stretching device that can worn by restoring men. We are still waiting for a successful invention though.

      Some early (1990s) online restorers, who tugged down the leg with elastic, noticed that the elastic vibrated a bit with each stride they took when they walked, and that these vibrations seemed to promote restoration progress. Another 1990s restorer kept careful measurements of his progress, and graphed it. He noticed that his progress picked up every time he replaced old distressed elastic with new resilient elastic. In the early 2000s, I became an advocate of using rubber band inserts in your tugging train. Once you find out which kind of rubber band works for you, you can buy them in bulk and replace them every fews days so you are always tugging with fresh resilient rubber. I attribute my own rapid progress, in part, to the vibes so generated.

      David
      World As Monkey Island

      I declared myself finished restoring with 3/4 erect coverage (CI-8.5) in 2005. I primarily used T-tape, strapping up and around my waist.
      I've participated in NORM meetings in San Diego, Los Angeles, Seattle (RECAP), and Ann Arbor, Michigan.

      Every doubt, reservation, or concern I had about my restoration was resolved by achieving additional LENGTH.....So just KOT !

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      • #4
        I don't get any swelling at all from this. Just how hard are you guys tugging?

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        • #5
          Yeah, I never did either. My "tube", when it's doubled, is virtually intact-thickness-looking (just my individual variation), and it always has been thin, even after sessions of experimental atomic-blast tugging : ) I'm thankful for it. I would've mentioned individual variation in natural skin thickness, which probably adds to the reason why some guys look sorta bloated, but that wasn't really the direction the OP was headed.

          Will it look like an intact penis, when all is said and done? Maybe, let's hope, but only if you happen to fall towards one end of the genetic/skin-thinness scale. Otherwise, not quite as much, according to those photos anyhow. In all cases, though, it looks like a circumcised penis when the tube's unrolled. Just the way works out. Better looking, far more functional mucosa, though.

          And just to keep things straight: there is no "swelling and edema", there is just swelling due to edema. Edema is extravasated fluid, AKA "swelling". Is minor edema an "enemy" of skin expansion? Not that I know of; never read that, and there isn't a physiological reason that comes to mind, unless we're talking significant tissue trauma, where larger blood vessels are torn and leaking. That ain't 'minor', nor should anyone who's tugging expect to see it, ever. There's "forum fact", and something closer to common experience. So overall I personally think that so-called swelling, noticeable swelling that remains, is closer to a seldom seen thing for most guys. Almost a myth; guys talk about it, but not many have seen it in the day-to-day.

          The best we can offer to the OP and others who read this is to say that any minor swelling is just that, minor, will resolve quickly, and this won't change the apparent thickness of the skin in any real way. You play the hand you're dealt.

          That aside, what I promote is finding the 'sweet spot' in tension. Throughout my years of tugging I always found myself coming back to that, even when I was using manual tugging. Greg approaches this from the other direction, but we meet exactly in the middle, so we're saying the same thing.

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          • #6
            Hey Info, how long did it take you to restore and where did you start from? What methods/devices did you use? I wonder if skin thickness has a bearing on time? My skin is thin as well. Probably due to my Northern European lineage (blonde hair blue eyes - Aryan? Lol.) .

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            • #7
              I'm one of them green-eyed, brown haired Celts (the ginger gene passed me by), who'd rather lay back and sing (if you can call it that), drink a little untaxed "water of life", than gear-up fight them English. : ) Unclear to me if ancestory has anything to do with it, though.

              It took about 9 years all told, but some of that was experimenting with this and that, so that isn't exact. I started from a fairly loose cut, good skin mobility, and maybe a half inch of old inner mucosa ("the hand you're dealt"), a frenulum remnant which was by no means as long as it was, but still fairly pronounced, and no funkiness like bridges, etc. I started with the TugAhoy (Tally has a reference to it on his site) and a strap, moved eventually to one of Ron's straps, then tried the TLC. Used those for awhile, but compression devices cause pain for me, although one feature of the TA design had a long strut poking out of the end, which you could kinda push on, on the sly, to alleviate some of the pain. It was obvious through slacks, though (couldn't wear more casual stuff in my job), so I got some questioning looks from the ladies, and one comment from one of them, but that's another story : )

              But pain is pain, so I went to a pill tube/binder clip/strap, and being me I experimented until I had that concept honed down to something that was much smaller than the usual arrangement. It worked very well, rarely had tape problems. Maybe a year or so later I added two kinds of manual to that. Beyond that I just kept on keeping on (which I see as the important message in all of this) until I got what I wanted: full flaccid coverage and a bit more, in case the size-elf ever bashed me on the head with her magic wand. Still waiting : ) (Jeeze, I hope it's a her).

              It's logical, and in keeping with general physiology, that skin thickness is really what each individual brings to the situation genetically, so it isn't really affected by any outside factor. That is all settled while were still at the factory.

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              • #8
                Hey TRG - When you say "The "new"skin that I've developed is thicker than an intact penis" - you have to understand that there isn't just one intact penis. There are almost as many variations as there are men. Some intact men have VERY thick skin, and even without having seen yours, I can almost guarantee some of them are even "thicker" than yours is right now. The idea that all intact ones have "thin" skin is completely wrong. A visit to a site where "regular" people post pictures of themselves (versus a porn site) will make this clear.

                In fact, in all the years I've been learning about "restoration" and seeing "progress pics", I can tell you I have never seen anything on a restored penis that I haven't seen on an intact one. "Thick skin", "wide opening", pronounced dark (sometimes "rough") line where the two layers meet, "no frenulum"....and so on.

                Info - I might have misunderstood what you were saying, but the outer and inner skin on an intact penis aren't "fused" into a "single layer". They're two separate layers, exactly (identically) like on a non-intact penis. When an intact man has an erection, if the skin pulls back (whether they do it on purpose or because it's not long or tight enough to stay covering the glans by itself, which is very [possibly most] common - and assuming the skin actually even "covers" the head when they're flaccid, which is not always the case), they have exactly the same "setup" as a non-intact guy - two totally separate layers of skin ("inner" and "outer") on the shaft. And the spot where the two layers meet can end up in different places on the shaft, sometimes going really far back toward the abdomen. (It doesn't always "bunch up" right under the glans.) The only difference is, on an intact guy, the spot where the two layers meet is "natural" rather than "man-made". The skin on the glans of an intact penis is a folded-over "double-layer" tube, exactly like it is on a restored penis, and it's just as "temporary" as it is for a restored guy.

                Comment


                • #9
                  No they aren't. It's a subtle point I'm making, but I think it's important. An actual foreskin is epidermis (same skin as shaft skin) and a "lining" of mucosa. This lining is fused to the outer epidermis, at a real tip, of a real tube (real in the sense that it was Nature-made); fused in a natural way. There is no scar. There is a natural, and uniquely functional, transition of tissues. Yes, you can unroll it, and yes, you can then see two distinct tissue types when you do that. But here's the thing:

                  A "restored" skin tube is virtually always made from two separate and complete layers of epidermis. Both layers OF THE SO-CALLED "TUBE"are not fused to each other NATURALLY because they are a temporary fold in the same epidermis. You made "two" temporary layers from one layer of shaft skin. This makes up a completely artificial "tube" which isn't a real tube at all. 'cause it's temporary. There may be some old inner mucosa involved (from the scar forward), depending one what you were left with, but for virtually all of us, the artificial "tube" we make by rolling down shaft skin, is made up of two distinct, non-naturally fused "layers" of epidermis mostly (which aren't actual layers at all). The "tube" we make is not a foreskin. It can't be compared to a foreskin without failing.

                  For us, the old mucosa and the shaft skin butt up against each other at the circ scar. Again, that doesn't compare to an intact, real foreskin. So for us there is a scar which interrupts the mucosa that was left to us, on one side of the scar, and the interruption of what shaft skin was left to us, begins on the other side of the scar. That counts as one overall layer, sure, but it's in an artificial arrangement, not natural When you roll down the excess shaft skin which most of us focus on, that results in 2 temporary "layers" of shaft skin which is really just a fold of expanded shaft skin. That temporary fold can be unrolled into just shaft skin again, and a bit of mucosal tissue.

                  I never thought I'd have to explain this, but I now see that this is a 3rd somewhat misunderstood view of what circumcision does. Kudos, you've added to my burden

                  I know what you're trying to say, you're making a subtle point. So am I. But your point becomes way false if you are comparing intact and circumcised. There ain't no "just like"between the two structures. I wouldn't want that idea to get a toe-hold on forums. What you are describing isn't so far off the natural arrangement but only in one-dimensional sense (and only if you tug for a whole bunch of mucosa)

                  I think it's more helpful, and way more accurate, to actually describe what we do in the way I have (even though it's subtle), because what we start with is essentially an unnatural surgical arrangement of tissue "stumps", not the true continuous structure that a real foreskin is made from, and that's true even if we tug for a lot more mucosa (which is my even more subtle point #2). I wouldn't want anyone to think we can actually restore Nature's original design. We can't. Certainly you don't think we can. Over the years, a lot of guys have thought that. But what you describe as "like" an intact structure isn't natural, it's an unnatural arrangement in several ways. My point is just as subtle, perhaps, but I think I should be the way to describe what we end up with. Restoration is a great message, a great way to come back, but we're coming back from very real damage. We start with damaged tissues.

                  Consider this (my subtle point #2) even if you have tugged for enough mucosa to lie over the sulcus and glans (past the tip), when you rolled that temporary fold of shaft skin down, thereby more or less "lining" the inside of a temporary tube, it will never be a naturally joined layer. It will be an unnaturally joined layer at one disrupted area, ie the circ scar. Again, we have a distance of mucosa, from the sulcus, back, which is interrupted at the scar (tissue stump #1), and then a distance of shaft skin back towards your belly, which was also interrupted by the scar (tissue stump #2). We work with those stumps. That's a far cry from the continuous set-up we were born with. The surgeon cut, or crushed, the naturally fused joining of mucosa actual epidermal outside, right off our dicks, then butted what was left up to each other, and let that unnatural arrangement heal. That's the only fusing we get to keep; the scar line. You won't get the original back. There's a scar in the mix, and no original transition of finely sensitive, functional tissue between main tissue types.
                  Last edited by Info; 03-19-2017, 09:55 PM.

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                  • #10
                    I see what you're getting at Info, but in most cases the scar spreads out and fades away creating a "transition zone". It's not quite the same as OEM, but at least that scar does vanish. Mine is almost completely invisible now.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by parsecskin View Post
                      I see what you're getting at Info, but in most cases the scar spreads out and fades away creating a "transition zone". It's not quite the same as OEM, but at least that scar does vanish. Mine is almost completely invisible now.
                      Yeah, like I said, it's a fine point. I just like putting as much detail, ie truth, to what we lost, and what we have in front of us when we start climbing that hill. I like to remember that that natural transition is an area of the densest pleasure neurons, when a scar line, faded or not, isn't.

                      Jeeze, I coulda phrased that way, in 2 sentences. LOL

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Info View Post

                        Yeah, like I said, it's a fine point. I just like putting as much detail, ie truth, to what we lost, and what we have in front of us when we start climbing that hill. I like to remember that that natural transition is an area of the densest pleasure neurons, when a scar line, faded or not, isn't.

                        Jeeze, I coulda phrased that way, in 2 sentences. LOL
                        You remember? At what age were you cut?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by parsecskin View Post

                          You remember? At what age were you cut?
                          No, I was an infant. When I say "I like to remember" I'm referring to the penile physiology that's only recently discovered/accepted, and I say it this way because it's one more area/function that's taken from a male who's been circ'd, and...........I'd like everyone else to be aware of it, especially those guys who are only discovering they were circumcised (believe it or not) and who don't know penile anatomy and physiology.

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                          • #14
                            You're lucky you don't remember. It's pure hell.

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