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Worried/upset about looseness of the end of the "skin tube"

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  • Worried/upset about looseness of the end of the "skin tube"

    Hi, I keep reading messages (here and elsewhere) where people say that the opening of the restored foreskin will eventually "tighten up" when the skin is long enough to hang past the end of the glans all the time. Looking at progress photos of people who are far along, it looks like pretty much everybody has a "tight" end like that when flaccid. Actually, I haven't seen one that wasn't. However, it also seems as if everybody has a "tight" end to begin with. I haven't seen any where they had a really wide, loose opening and then it magically got tight later -- it seems they're always "tight" (or "snug"?) from the start.

    I'm looking for advice from people who have gotten to the point where they have complete flaccid coverage, including people who consider themselves "finished" with restoring. I'm really getting worried I will be the one person who gets the "baggy windsock" half of people worry about and the other half say "can't happen". (And, yes, I'm mainly worried about the appearance--for better or, more likely, for worse, and that's almost entirely the reason I'm doing this. Please don't suggest that I stop worrying about the way it looks.)

    My questions for those who have gotten far along in their restoration or are "finished":
    1. How long is your restored foreskin? How much farther past the end of the glans does it go when you're flaccid?
    2. What is the opening of your foreskin like when you're flaccid? How tight/"loose" is it?
    3. While you were/are actively "tugging", is/was the skin tube roughly as wide as the shaft when you were flaccid, so that the end was "wide-open" most of the time?
    4. Did your skin get "tighter" after you stopped actively "tugging" and it "relaxed"? If so, how long did it take for it to do that? How is it different/how has it changed? Or, was there no change over time, so that what you had when you stopped tugging was exactly the same as what you have now?
    5. Does it stay tight all the time (when flaccid and under normal circumstances), or does it only tighten when you're cold, etc? If it's tight and you pull it back and push it forward again, will the end be wide-open and the same size as the shaft? Does it return to being "tight" after a while, and if so, how long does that take?
    6. Did/do you wear a "retainer" while you are/were not tugging? Do you think wearing a retainer made it end up tighter than it would have been otherwise?
    7. What kind of underwear do you wear? Do you think this had an effect on how yours turned out?

    **To clarify, when I say "tight", I mean where the end of the "skin tube" is at least somewhat narrower than the glans/shaft. I don't mean a super-tight "pucker" situation. I'm very familiar with the variations in intact penises and I know many intact men have "loose" openings. I don't want mine to be like a pin-hole or anything, I just don't want it to be like a hoop skirt (if that makes sense?)




    Just for background, I started with CI-5, but because of the way it was (with much inner skin), my scar line is going to be near the end of the glans (actually on the underside the scar line extends past the end of the glans about 1/2" when I pull the skin forward) even if I don't stretch the inner skin at all. I'm assuming because the scar is damaged tissue, the muscle there is less likely to be able to "tighen up" the way people describe? (As opposed to having the scar farther up inside with two layers of shaft skin at the tip, which I would assume would "shrivel up" more.)

    Also, my shaft is significantly thicker than the glans, which I'm afraid will contribute to the "bagginess". It seems for most guys the glans has much more girth than the shaft, which obviously helps the skin tube to be "tight" (since the tube will be the size of the shaft and, therefore, narrower than the glans). My situation is the opposite; flaccid the glans is about 3.5" circumference and shaft is 4.5". Erect the shaft is 5.25"-5.5" circumference in the area where the scar line normally rests. Because of this, I would assume the "scar tube" has stretched out permanently to the erect circumference, so there would have to be a LOT of contraction for it not to "hang off" loosely and wide-open like a shirt sleeve.

    I'm using manual tugging only, since I want to avoid stretching the inner skin as much as possible. Also, because of where I started, there's not much "room" to grow and I'm terrified I'm going to do something "wrong" and have no opportunity to "catch it" in time to fix it. So, no "device". I would say right now I'm at CI-6+ from stretching heavily over the last couple of weeks. I'm getting really upset because the end is SO DAMN LOOSE. The worst is when wearing briefs (I prefer those), they mash it down against my balls so when I go to look at it the end is smashed down flat and is a big wide flat tube that's wider than the penis itself. Part of me says "don't judge it when you know it's at it's 'worst'", but seeing that is SO DISCOURAGING.

    I've read about people using "tapered devices" because they allegedly help make the skin "grow" so it's "tighter", possibly by making the new cells "align" so they fit closer together, and using "retainers" to "train" the end to stay tight. Honestly, I find it hard to believe you can make a tube of skin "grow" so it ends up narrower than it started. As for retainers, I've tried using a silicone baby bottle nipple that I trimmed, but when I sit down and my penis "turtles" it falls off.

    I guess what I'm really concerned about is that not using a retainer will make the end wider than it would have been if I had used one. Like I said, I can't get it to stay on when I sit, and I sit a lot. And the opposite--that wearing briefs and letting the end get mashed down flat and wide the way I described and held that way all the time is going to make it end up wider, like a "reverse retainer". I've never seen anybody ask about this. Normally people talk about briefs acting like a "retainer" themselves, but again, since most guys seem to have "tight" tips all along, theirs aren't getting "mashed flat" like I described. I don't like wearing boxers, but maybe I should? When I wear those thise obviously doesn't happen the same way.

    Really sorry for the long message. I didn't want to leave anything out. I've also been severely depressed (really really bad) for the last couple of weeks and it's really hard for me to post this. If I read it through so I can edit it down more I might not be able to post it at all.

    (Lastly, I know pictures would help show what I'm talking about, but I'm not comfortable posting pictures.)

  • #2
    No photos, but I tried to draw pictures to show what I'm talking about. I also forgot to say a HUGE THANKS to anybody who actually takes the time to read such a long message.

    Comment


    • #3
      While I am not quite in the category of tuggers from which you are asking for input, I can offer my experience so far on parts of what you want to know.

      My foreskin opening is loose and baggy immediately after tugging. But it "tightens up after an hour of so, and grips the glans in a relaxed fashion. And, it is often quite tight, with a closed opening, either partially of completely. I have no worries about it looking normal and not being baggy.

      I also take 3 months off each year. During the extended rest period, it stays nicely in place, varying from a bit loose to completely closed.

      Most of my tugging was using an insert about the size of my shaft, so the my skin opening was encircling the insert. My foreskin reacted the same way as I described above. In the last few years, I have been using inflation, with a balloon that only gets wider than my flaccid shaft, a bit wider than my erect shaft, but the gripper holds the opening of my skin tube closed. It still reacts the way I described above.

      I have never used retainers, as such, though there have been times early on that I kept the skin over my glans for comfort.

      I highly doubt that your underwear affects how this will turn out. But it can serve as a casual retainer of sorts, and I took advantage of that, by arranging my skin so that the underwear helped it to stay covering my glans.

      Finally, I will add that tugging puts stress on your skin. This stress can cause a slight swelling, which can cause the skin to be looser. The literature and anecdotal evidence suggests strongly that this will take some time, potentially more than a year, after you stop tugging to reach its final thickness and behavior. Most pictures you will see of restorers were not taken a year or more after they stopped restoring. And most restorers, after finishing do not seem to stay active on the forum.

      Regards

      Comment


      • #4
        I would just point out the anyone's skin tube is not one thing, but a variety of states throughout a day. I'm sure guys tend to post the most flattering pics.

        To me the quest-for-pucker thing is about:
        a) Keeping reliably covered, and the perception that a sufficiently tight skin tube is helpful for that.
        b) Presenting as intact-looking in the locker room or bedroom or doctor's exam room.

        For me and B, I say the main thing is what my partner sees upon first encountering my penis during an encounter, and that is indeed a tightly puckered skin tube (influenced by wearing the Your-Skin Cone pretty much right up until the big reveal). If I was regularly strutting in locker rooms, I would certainly not want to look like someone whose glans was busy peeking out of my skin - as if I'm getting aroused by casual nudity. For this one, sufficient skin tube length is the key, unless one is willing to wear a Your-Skin Cone on display. The only time I can recall doing that in a shower room was at an intactivist conference where pretty much everyone showering in the dorm was on our team. At my doctor, I do wear the cone even when I'm told to "go in there and remove everything and put on the gown, opening in back."

        For A, I keep covered (when I deem it critical) by wearing the Your-Skin Cone.
        -Ron Low
        [email protected]
        847 414-1692 Chicago

        Comment


        • #5
          I'll add:

          Don't worry. You have no worries. What you are concerned about will not happen. It can't happen, not on this planet, not to human beings with human skin.

          There was a guy on the old forum who went into a lot of detail about why this is true, but back then nobody seemed to understand what he was talking about, so it caused an ongoing argument that got heated from time to time. I don't want to start that here, but because you seem to be truly worried (and long posts don't bother you ), I'll cover the points:

          1. What you are doing when you expand shaft skin, is make more of it. We all know that. But we don't make it into some shape. The skin that is created grows just like the skin it comes from: a flat sheet. I'll repeat that because it's important; the skin that grows is a flat sheet.

          2. Because your shaft is round, basically a cylinder, that flat sheet lies around that cylinder, and hugs it. The new stuff does not lie MORE loosely, or LESS loosely, than any other part of that skin. It grows just like it did before you started tugging. As it expands, you get more of it, but it isn't growing in any shape per se, just a flat sheet, again not looser, or tighter, hugging the shaft. Just normal shaft skin.

          3. When you expand enough shaft skin, it will bunch up behind the corona because you are adding more and more of it in the same area, so it pushes up against the corona.

          4. Grow more of it still, and it will push over the corona. When you look at the "end" of that mass of expanded skin, it will look like a very short tube. Grow still more skin, and that "tube", which is really just the same flat sheet which surrounds the shaft, will look like a longer "tube". This fact confuses guys. They see what looks like a tube, and of course they want a tube, so they think ... it's a tube. Can't blame 'em, but the fact remains that it isn't a tube. It's just a bunched up, quantity of shaft skin which is doubling over because there is enough of it to do that, and because it is attached to the penis behind the corona (at the scar).

          5. So, here's the thing said yet again: it's not a real, distinct tube. It is a doubled over flat sheet of skin, which had to go somewhere so it doubled over and pushed down towards the end of you penis. It doubled over in a tube shape because your penis is a tube shape. Maybe you can see that this fact (and it is a fact that no one can really argue against) is hard for some guys to see. I don't know why, but it is. I'll repeat it: we do not grow real tubes, we grow the usual flat sheet of skin, which lies all around the shaft, and which grows so that it eventually doubles over and pushes down over towards the end of your penis. If you unroll this "tube" (take the double fold out) you get an unshaped, non-tube, flat sheet of shaft skin all bunched up around the shaft. See?

          6. Now here's the hard part to see: so if it's really just a bunched up flat sheet of skin (and it is), where's the end?! The answer is, there isn't an end! There is no freakin' permanent end to that sheet of skin, only a temporary "end" where the excess skin doubles over, when you roll that doubled over flat sheet down to the end of your penis. So if there isn't an end (and there isn't) how can you somehow make it looser, or tighter? You can't! You simply cannot. No one ever has, no one ever will. There is no such thing as a "loose-sock tube". So don't worry. Now, read the next point:

          7. YOU don't grow all this skin, your skin grows all this skin; it does all the work. Your skin grows itself, according to natural rules. All YOU do is stimulate your skin to do this, by placing cycles of tension on it. You have no control over the process in any other way. Your part is to tug or not tug, and that's it. That's the part that guys really don't like to hear. It isn't that they don't understand it, they just don't want it to be true. But it is. Your skin does it all. I hammer away at this ad nauseam, just because some guys worry, when they don't have to.

          8. So if there isn't a real end, to a real tube, (and there isn't) and you have no input into how the skin grows itself, how the hell can you make it grow looser, or tighter?! You can't. Fact is, shaft skin has very thin, microscopic muscle fibers under it, which contract, and cause the false end (the place where it doubles over) to narrow down. In fact all shaft skin narrows when that happens, but you don't see that so much, along the shaft. That's the magic of it. YOU didn't cause this to happen, and no DEVICE causes this to happen, your body and your nervous system causes this to happen. A true gift for us.

          All you can do is tug, and take advantage of a natural process that will pull you out of a bad situation (circumcision) and give you back some of what you lost. That's one of the wonderful facts that causes me to show up on restoration forums. It takes time, a lot of time, and a little guesswork, but it will repay you in ways that you aren't aware of.

          Now, there are occasionally posters who show up to try to step on this message. They don't like good news. They want to cause worry and stress, and/or impress you with impossible claims. Don't listen to them; don't let 'em get to you. Maybe you can see why I go after the inevitable forums types who want to fool you or impress you with "facts" that don't exist. They only cause you to criticize yourself. Screw 'em. Tune 'em out.

          And don't worry. You will receive, from that natural process, everything you wanted. And more; there may be pleasures that you aren't aware of now. That's a promise from those of us who've finished, or those of us who are substantially down the road of skin expansion.
          Last edited by Reality; 03-17-2017, 03:56 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Click image for larger version  Name:	3 pane progress photo.jpg Views:	2 Size:	188.3 KB ID:	12802


            To expand upon Info's point, I've attached a 3-pane progress photo of mine. I didn't do anything to make the end of the skin tube look narrower as time progressed - it just happens when there's more skin to overhang. And there's over 2700 hours of "unconstrained" direct air inflation between picture 1 and picture 3! If anyone was begging for the "feedbag" it was me...and it just didn't happen.

            Now, it IS possible to deliberately widen at least part of a skin tube. That is, after all, what men with tight foreskin are doing to widen their foreskin to allow for retraction. Same skin growth principles being put to different application. But if you look at the exercises and types of devices those men are using, there's no chance you're going to somehow accidentally do that to yours.
            Visit my restoration progress journal.

            Comment


            • #7
              Mine is not done yet either, and certainly not like mjwise.

              It does vary from loose to tight, depending on temperature, activities, and god knows what.

              My goal is full coverage and easy glide. Final appearance will be what it will be.

              Comment


              • #8
                Wow. Thanks for the response, guys. I really appreciate you taking the time to read all that.

                I decided to just upload some photos. It's really hard for me to do this but it's the only way I can show you what I'm talking about. Otherwise I have to write an even longer description.

                First I should say, mine is "different" and I have never seen another guy with one like mine. I don't want to think about it but whatever was done to me was done "wrong" (of "wronger" since it's always "wrong"). Before stretching I had CI-5, but I had two layers of inner skin covering the glans with the scar up near where the glans started. I guess most of what was taken was outer skin. So first I want to get it long enough for the inner skin to stay "inside" all the time. The inner skin is also VERY baggy and "loose". I don't know if this is just how I was "naturally" or what. (Intact guys can have really loose and "baggy" inner skin as well, except they have a tight tip that keeps it "controlled" when it's covered.) Because of how it is, the inner skin is long enough to reach almost to the end of the glans on top (dorsal), with the scar being near the tip. On the bottom (ventral), the scar extends about 1/2" past the tip of the glans. So, in order for the scar to be completely "inside" the tube, it would have to extend 1/2" past the end of the glans on the underside. That would account for the "overhang". But since it's scar tissue, I'm assuming that contributes to it not "closing up" the way it does for other people, like mjwise. For all the people I've seen, including him, the bottom side curves under and "hugs" the glans the way it normally does in an intact one. Mine never does that. It always "hangs off" loosely.

                To be clear, in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th pictures, it wasn't "sitting" like that for a while. I just hunched forward and took the pictures. It's possible the muscles would begin to "contract" the way people describe it doing if it sat this way for a while, but I have tried waiting and also standing in front of a fan to "cool it off" and although it can shrink a little bit, it never gets "tight" and the opening is still wide and "saggy". This is why I was asking, for those where is maintains a tighter opening, if that was something that happened slowly over the course of time, or if it was like that all along.

                I know I need to grow more skin before I can tell for sure what it's going to be like. I'm just afraid it's going to end up looking really loose and baggy like this, and I may wish I had left it alone. I'm happy for the guys who are more concerned about the mechanical aspects than the appearance, but for me the appearance is very important. (Being gay makes a difference. Straight men don't normally have to deal with the idea of "partners" who are acutely aware of exactly what they're looking at.) And no, I don't go around naked in front of other people, but the idea of at least having something that looks somewhat "natural" in my pants is one of the few things that comforts me when I'm feeling really depressed. If my pants suddenly disappeared and somebody caught a glimpse, I would just want it to look "natural" enough for them not to immediately think "what happened to that guy?" I don't have "unrealistic expectations" in the sense that my only goal is to look as "natural" as all of the restored men I've seen. I would consider mjwise's skin to be "pretty tight". Intact guys can have looser openings than that. I would be totally fine with mine being quite a bit looser. And I have no problem with the "thickness" of the skin. Again, intact guys can have even "thicker" skin than this.

                As for the pictures (again this is really hard for me to do and didn't try to make them "nice"):

                The first pic shows kind of how it is flaccid normally, except I had a hard time staying totally flaccid so I had to hunch a bit. Normally the glans is not this large so it's more flat on the sides. You can see how the skin kind of adheres to the glans, but the end is not "tight" at all. it just looks that way.

                Second and third photos are the same, but hunching forward so the glans retracts in. You can see how loose the end is. I'm afraid this is how it will be (and stay) if I continue to grow enough skin for it to "hang off the end" this way all the time. As you can see, this IS the dreaded "loose tube sock" you've never seen before.

                Photo four is sitting to show what I was talking about before.

                BTW I'm sorry I have to ask this, but before anybody comments, please consider what you're saying. I'm aware that this looks horrible, I'm aware that the rest of you don't have to deal with this, and I understand that if it's going to be like this there's nothing I can do about it (outside of surgery, which is out of the question). I just ask that you try to "let me down easy" if you can.

                PS: Forgot to ask. For mjwise and rest of you, when you were/are actively stretching and growing your skin, if you hunched over like I described, would it have done something similar to what mine does? I don't suppose so but that's what I wanted to know. Also, I've seen intact men (mainly ones who are obese) where it looked pretty much identical to the "sitting" picture when they were sitting, and for the same reason - two layers of outer skin.


                Comment


                • #9
                  mjwise, I've seen your pictures before and that looks truly amazing. I would never think that was anything other than intact. One thing though - the opening doesn't appear to have gotten "tighter". If you measure with your fingers, the part just past the end of your glans is the same size in all the pictures. The only difference is that the second and third have more "overhang". This is what I was talking about - people say theirs "tightens" when in actuality, it was "tight" all along. The way it is in your first picture - did that happen gradually, or was it like that all along?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Info - thanks for posting that. I've come across the threads you're referring to before and have read them many times. The thing is, although it's true that where the tube "folds over" is the "end" and it's only temporary, it's still an "end" while it's there, and if it's correct (as some people suggest and I find hard to believe) that you can make the part that's undergoing mitosis "remodel itself" to be tighter by wearing a retainer or something to hold it under tension while the mitosis is occurring, then it is possible for the "end" to "grow tighter" than it started, even if that "end" moves to a different position at some point due to more stretching or something. That's how intact ones work too. What constitutes the "tip" isn't always the same part. Intact guys have "fluctuations" just like non-intact guys. Sometimes it even causes the outer skin to roll back onto itself, making a double-layer of outer skin, exactly like a restored guy.

                    By the same token, if it can become permanently "tighter" by holding it under tension while it's undergoing mitosis, it's logical that holding it stretched out wide and flat (like I described with the drawings) would make it "grow" wider. That's what I was worried about.

                    About no one ever growing a tighter tip - check out Chuck who makes the DTR. He is developing a tight tip. It's tight enough to contract tightly around his shaft exactly like some particularly-tight intact ones do. In fact, it got so tight at one point that he was having problems with it, very much like phimosis, and he had to stretch it to make it looser. He has a video on his site showing it.

                    BTW, I really appreciate your advice at the end of your message! The thing is, my criticizing myself has nothing to do with other people. It's entirely me. And I know this sounds like a whiney "b*tch" thing to say, but it's easy for people who are having cosmetically-pleasing results (which is everybody I've ever seen) to say "don't worry about it". They have nothing to worry about (relatively speaking).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Your skin looks fine and "normal" for a circumcised man to me. And congratulations on your progress thus far, looks like you are doing well. I think all will settle into place as you get further along.

                      If I understand your description and photos, you have a lot more inner than outer, in terms of getting coverage while flaccid, correct? So that when your skin is forward, you have a double layer of inner skin, and your scar is on the outside, closer to your body than the tip of your glans, correct?

                      Many believe that the inner skin, being mucosa, will not have as much ability to "grip" or contract. It was "designed" to be on the inside, more "passive" if you will, than the outer skin. So if I were you, I would tug to grow outer skin predominantly. I would use either manual or a gripper with a strap, or weights. Those methods would make it easier to focus tension on the outer skin. As you get more outer skin, the inner will gradually move forward and inside, as the outer skin gets more in balance with the inner skin length.

                      Keep in mind that the skin won't stay over until it is long enough to drape over the glans without tension. that requires a lot more skin than you might imagine. Until it does, and stays in front (past the tip), it will not "tighten" up, creating the more narrow opening you want. Until you reach that point, it is impossible to predict how "tight" it will be, and it will depend on the conditions as well, cold air temps with cause it to "grip" more than warm, for example.

                      Keep on tugging, all looks fine to me.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ok, I'll try to list this sequentially but I will fail because it's not really a sequential event; rather it's an 'all at the same time' sort of thing. But let's try.....


                        Let's call it: Info's Longest And Most Confusing Post Yet



                        1. Again, it's NOT possible to somehow force that false end to "remodel" and grow tighter. It's just not possible, so there's no use in hypothesizing that it is possible (which is what you've done here). So why do that? Unless you like to be anxious. It's also not possible to somehow widen that area. We'll look at why.

                        2. I'll reserve my opinion on Chuck. I have a definite opinion, but he's not here to answer. Maybe if he joins.......

                        3. The first photo in the series you uploaded, looks entirely normal. Nothing wrong with it at all. Hope you read this.

                        If you want to compare yourself to an intact penis, I'd have to say: which one? They are all different, with some of them entirely unacceptable to the average tugger, ie short, open at least as wide as your last several photos. I think that may be the crux of your problem: you seem to be accepting that there is one perfect model out there that Nature gives all intact guys, with little variation between them. Not true. It just is not true. I know there is all sorts variation out there; in my profession(s) I've seen a bunch. If you want photographic proof, just search for the old naturist photos online, especially the European photos. You'll see.

                        4. Now: I didn't go into a fundamental aspect of tension vs skin in my first post, because it's even more difficult to grasp, but here it is, and it's the reason why you can't pull "wide" on the false end. (The old timers are now hunching their shoulders and looking off into the distance, wanting to be somewhere else ). That's your concern, so I'll address it:

                        a. Tension does not shape. I'll say it again because nobody really believes it (even when they think they do), but it happens to be true: tension does not shape. Get that idea out of your head, not for me, but for your own benefit and peace of mind.

                        Tension just stimulates your skin to do what your skin does, which is, just grow more of itself IN NO PARTICULAR DIRECTION (now even I'm hunching my shoulders). That is true too. When your cells divide, and they add to the tissue, they pop into existence like like little fluid filled bubbles. THOSE BUBBLES DO NOT POINT IN A DIRECTION. The very, very fine structures which surround those cells can be pulled in various directions, BUT THE CELLS GROW IN PLACE. Period. Your skin does this thing cell by cell. It NEVER does it on the gross level.

                        b. Again, YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THAT PROCESS. Truly, you don't. Everybody thinks that to pull forward with tension is to stretch the skin forward, and stretching the skin forward causes the skin to grow in that direction. It doesn't. It does not. Guys just can't get that idea out of their heads.

                        Here's the first step in thinking about things: if tension doesn't shape (and it doesn't) then applying tension so that it pulls "forward" (towards the end of your penis), pulling the skin forward, then that skin does NOT grow in that direction, because that would be tension "shaping" the skin. Right? Well, tension doesn't shape skin. Tension does NOT override your skin's rules, your skin's built-in response to tension. So, the first step is to recognize that skin growing "forward" is a logical contradiction. Tension doesn't shape (I'm gonna say it many times, because it's true), it just kickstarts the cell division, whichever direction you pull, and then tension walks away, leaves the room. It didn't do anything else; kickstarted, and left. No shaping (tension doesn't shape), just growth, here and there, first in the basal layer, and eventually above that layer. So skin growing in a particular direction can't happen for the simple logic of the thing (tension doesn't shape, nor does it "sometimes shape", or shape if you tug on Sundays. IT NEVER SHAPES). And logic isn't the only thing to consider. How about the physiology of it. The very complex physiology of it ALSO contradicts the mistaken idea that skin grows in a "forward" direction, This would be Nature insisting that tension doesn't shape. And, SO DOES THE SIMPLE PHYSICS OF IT insist the same fact (which I will get to). So, no growing in a "direction", even if you pull in that direction, because it is skin, not tension, that causes growth, all internally. Logic points to it, Nature says so, Physics says so. Pretty authoritative crowd. Tension: he just left the room at the end of a cycle. Look at it this way: tension only spurted, and the Mommy grew the baby That is the way epidermal mitosis works, as a result of tension. Not because I say so, but because that's what Science has discovered.

                        c. Let's drill down a bit and look at tension: In fact, we DON'T PULL THE LOOSE SHAFT SKIN FORWARD when we tug forward! How's that, for a shocker. Not ALL of it is pulled forward; not ONE HALF OF IT. The underside (the side which is doubled over and under), is pulled BACK, towards your belly when you pull the "tube" forward. Don't think so? If you mark an arrow on the top "side" (which isn't really a side, it's just shaft skin in a bunch, which you doubled over) pointing towards the tip of your penis, it points "forward", right? Well, what happens if you lift up on the doubled over "tube" momentarily, just enough to draw a corresponding arrow on the "underside", which also points in the same direction (towards the tip of your penis)? They both point "forward" when you pull the "tube" forward. They do. But is that actually the direction the underside is being pulled? Nope, the underside arrow, WHEN YOU UNROLL THAT TUBE, WILL POINT BACK TOWARDS YOUR BELLY. "Top" "side" is pulled "forward", and the under "inner" "side" is pulled in the reverse direction. I know, hard to see. So why is this important. Well, tension didn't "shape" that underside to grow backwards, right? You can still roll it down, "forward". That's one point. But there are better points. Bear with me. Here's why:

                        d. Your shaft is a cylinder. A round, cylindrical structure of a certain length. Your shaft skin hugs that structure ALL THE WAY AROUND IT. There is no break in the skin, in other words. So...what direction does your skin grow when it adds to itself? Tell me, which direction? "Forward"? Well, no. Backwards? No. So what does the skin do when it adds to itself? Just look down to see. It adds to itself, and because there is a limited area, it begins to wrinkle, and those wrinkles lift up from the loose connection to the shaft. More and more tissue means those wrinkles get fatter, and continue to lift. But is that a direction? No. Is it Forward? NO (sorry, emphasis, not shouting. Well.....maybe a little shouting ). That new tissue is NOT growing forward. It's just adding to itself like that old SciFi movie The Blob. Truly. Little microscopic cells pop up, here and there. They don't all line up in some gross-level direction.

                        e. It is also, and here's the other important fact to grasp, growing AROUND the shaft. It adds to itself, and lifts up, around a cylinder. So let's look at that:

                        f. The Physics Of The Thing:

                        IF skin grows, adds to itself, because it was stimulated by tension (not shaped) when you pull forward (and backwards), AND it grows in no direction per se, just cell after cell, here and there, in place, AND it does grow all around the cylinder with no break, no end, in the tissue, and just gets lifted and lumpier, THEN ... does it matter what direction you pull? NO! Your skin will still grow according to IT'S rules, in a continuous flat sheet, ie a 'layer', adding more to itself around that cylinder BECAUSE IT'S CONTINUOUS. You can pull forward, or straight out at a 90 from the shaft, or back towards your belly, or any angle therein and it will go on doing what it insists on doing: growing in place, and lying there in fatter and fatter wrinkles.

                        We've already seen that the die-hard, traditional tuggers all pull forward AND BACKWARDS AT THE SAME TIME (they just didn't know they were). Your skin will just grow the way it grows. No control, remember? Wait..........isn't a 90 the same as pulling "wide"? Let's look at that.

                        What about that 90? That'll give you a "loose sock", right? And if you pull on that false end at a 90, that'll REALLY give you a loose sock, 'cause that's pulling "wide", as wide as you can go. Right? Isn't that what all the experts on restoration forums say? Yeah, they say it, but it simply isn't true. No, no, NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE. That direction of tension (straight out at a 90) is just a STIMULUS (first of all), not a shaper, remember?, so it didn't somehow magically morph into a shaper when you decided to use it in a different direction, and remember, the "end" itself isn't really an end, so it really isn't there to begin with, it's just the TEMPORARY end of a blob. And that end didn't somehow become something magically different, didn't become a distinct structure when it hangs off, it's just a pulled down mass of tissue because cells grow in place, according to skin's rules, not in a direction per se, and there's no break in the shaft skin, it's a DOUBLE LAYER, WHICH YOU CAN SEE AT THAT TEMPORARY END, and when it's unrolled it's continuous all around the cylinder, growing in a flat sheet which is lifting up , more and more around that cylinder, which is where it lies, and it doesn't matter which direction you pull, you just get more flat sheet around the cylinder, so..............how the hell can you somehow pull something "wide" when it's only there temporarily, not permanent, and when the "end" is a flat continuous sheet, doubled over and anchored at the scar line, AND the force you used (tension) doesn't shape anything, ie doesn't cause skin to go in some direction permanently, AND when you don't have control over any of it, etc, etc, blah, blah? See what I mean? Maybe you can; hope you can see this. It's ok if you can't. Just realize that, like tension, after you tug, YOU leave the room too, and then your skin does it all, in the way you want it to happen.

                        You can't somehow "make" a "loose sock" out of doubled over, continuous, unbroken, anchored at the scar line, tissue which adds to itself along only one axis: the basal layer. It won't happen. IT CAN'T HAPPEN, physiologically, physically, not even logically. To think that it does, you'd have to ignore that authoritative crowd. It happens only in drawings, which you did have control over . But drawings aren't real. They are flat, yes, but one dimensional, and not living tissue with rules. So don't worry.

                        Use manual to isolate the area you want to focus on.
                        Last edited by Reality; 03-19-2017, 10:00 PM.

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                        • #13
                          I am using a home-made inflation device to complete my restoration (my blog has details of the device). There is no doubt that over the years I have used this method the inflated balloon of skin is getting bigger. When I deflate the device after about 2 hours, the skin hangs in a slack curtain around my glans. Within minutes it has done a sort of "shrink fit", following the profile of my glans and puckering nicely at the end. I have created a natural-looking foreskin that has been in place for a number of years with totally reliable coverage. I continue to tug to see if I can get erect coverage (nearly there) and because I am sure I have become addicted to the feel of an inflated penis. My device – a Bb tuba mouthpiece – is 48mm diameter at its widest point. I choose that substantial size to get my skin to encompass my widely flared glans, I never worried about a "baggy" restoration and it just never happened. Keep applying the tension in any way that suits your lifestyle, the aesthetics will look after themselves.

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                          • #14
                            Jeffs,
                            Per my review of the photos you’ve posted:
                            The amount of swelling in your growing foreskin is par for the course for your stage of restoration. I remember when my own restoration looked like that. I remember when other men have showed up at NORM meetings with exactly the same condition and concern. I don’t think you have much, if anything, to worry about.

                            However, problems can arise if the swelling progresses. Swelling comes in a number of grades, from minor (puffy, soggy) to severe (hard) swelling. The puffy-soggy swelling that we see — and which I’m calling par for the course — does not completely prevent tissue expansion by tensioning. However, if the swelling progresses to a hard swelling, then restoration progress will stop, and you have no choice but to stop tugging and give your restoration a long rest — for a year or more — to allow the tissue to normalize. By hard swelling, I mean the kind of swelling you see if you whack an elbow or knee. The joint swells up to three times its size, and the swelling makes the tissue rock hard. Wayne Griffiths said on restore-list years ago that one gent had shown up with such hard swelling at the Northern California Chapter of NORM. This restorer was using a homemade PUD with very heavy weights.

                            For ways to help control the swelling, see my previous post on the subject here:

                            https://foreskinrestoration.vbulleti...2762#post12762

                            In order for your foreskin to have a nice slim fit, a couple of other things also have to happen. First, your glans and inner skin have to dekeratinize and go wet. Second, any crusty scar that you had must resorb (My gnarly bread crust of a scar is completely gone!)

                            Advanced restorers often take steps to tug in a way that will help insure that they will end up with a nice taper. In the later part of my restoration journey, I, myself, learned how to apply my T-tapes without first giving myself an erection. My T-tape jobs then had a smaller diameter. I don’t know how much it helped. I get nice closure at the tip of my prepuce when I’m in a cold environment, or during heavy exertion. However, I don’t know if that would have occurred had I not tried to slim down my T-tape jobs at all.

                            I don’t know what method you are using, but I do know that I have seen smaller cones offered for advanced restorers on the TLCtugger.com site.

                            As far as I know, my restored foreskin reacts just like an intact man’s does in response to environmental changes. Sometimes my foreskin looks gnarly and loose. Other times, I closes with a nice nipple and is cute as all hell!

                            Intact foreskins are not always photogenic. The photos you see are almost always selected. I’ve perused a number of tumblr sites that feature close ups of the male genitalia. In reviewing the photos, I’ve noticed that if an intact penis has a nice slim wrap and a nipple, the scrotum is most often also contracted.

                            David
                            World As Monkey Island


                            Last edited by Science Monk; 03-21-2017, 05:42 PM. Reason: fixed URL
                            I declared myself finished restoring with 3/4 erect coverage (CI-8.5) in 2005. I primarily used T-tape, strapping up and around my waist.
                            I've participated in NORM meetings in San Diego, Los Angeles, Seattle (RECAP), and Ann Arbor, Michigan.

                            Every doubt, reservation, or concern I had about my restoration was resolved by achieving additional foreskin LENGTH.....So just KOT !

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                            • #15
                              "Going wet" and a flattening of the circ scar have nothing to do with your temporary skin tube hugging the shaft, sulcus, and glans. Absolutely nothing. Just tug, tug for enough to cover the glans (doesn't even have to cover the tip) and you'll see what you wanted.

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