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  • Taking Breaks?

    I was just wondering if taking breaks is beneficial, or is it better to just tug as much as possible?

  • #2
    Breaks are just as important as tugging. Growth (mitosis) happens for days after tension is removed. At some point your skin simply stops responding to constant tension and needs a break. If after a few days your skin is a bit sore, take a break for a couple of days. I personally tug for 4 days then take 2 off.

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    • #3
      Can't hurt to take breaks. But you don't have to worry about your skin "stopping" its response to tension (and especially to "constant tension", which we can't do).

      Nobody here can put an actual number to how many breaks to take, and how many tugging cycles you should balance that with, because nobody here knows. General mitosis (the usual rate of mitosis) is very complex, and more importantly, it's variable; it varies off and on in the time that it takes, for various reasons. We're talking about the human body, and it's a lot more complex than just some on/off way of looking at it.

      Add to that, what we try for is stimulating a very thin layer of living skin cells to divide at a higher than normal rate, and this becomes even more complicated because it calls in an additional series of events and biochemicals. So ... what all this means is, your guess is as good as ours. There isn't any reason to come up with pseudo science, though, just because we don't know.

      It sounds obvious to say it, but I'd suggest way more tugging cycles than days off. Find your own balance in it (don't get carried away, though). Don't worry about any of it. Know why? What you do as the tugger-person part of it, can't affect the rate of mitosis. The only thing you can do is stimulate the process to start with those cycles of tension, and that's it. Your skin does all the rest. You simply don't have any other kind of control or effect.

      So just find a tugging schedule that works for you, and go for it. No worries.

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      • #4
        I take weekends, holidays, vacations off. I also take a month or so off each year, during my field season. I look at breaks as both potentially a good thing, and they allow me to use my new equipment and see how it is working.

        Regards

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        • #5
          A medical study I read, regarding tissue expansion (the technical term for what we're doing), found that constant tension caused faster growth than intermittent tension. The difference was very significant, but I can't recall the exact percentage. Same study also found that the higher the tension, the faster the tissue grew. Again, it was a significant difference. It also noted that the higher the tension, the higher the risk of damage...which should be obvious.

          Constant tension is basically impossible, due to the nature of the area we're dealing with. However, the longer tension is applied, the more skin growth is encouraged.
          So, to answer your question...
          Breaks aren't beneficial, in the sense that they don't increase your results, compared to not taking breaks. You'll hear plenty of anecdotal evidence that contradicts this, so it's basically a judgement call. Personally, when I hear people claim that they see better results when taking breaks, I can't help but wonder if they're one of the people who've been restoring for 5+ years, and only reached a CI-4.
          There are no real studies that have been conducted on FR methods. Studies regarding tissue expansion in other areas is all the "real" stuff we have to go on.
          Take breaks when/if you feel you need them. Definitely take a break if you see even the slightest sign of injury.

          EDIT: When I get a sec, I'll try to retrace my steps to find that study I mentioned. If I do, I'll link it here.

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          • #6
            Breaks are needed to allow blood to flow. When they do skin expansion for burn victims and such, a balloon is inserted under the skin and inflated. There is no restricti9n of blood flow. A foreskin restoration device habits very nature does inhibit blood flow to some degree. Hence breaks are necessary.
            Last edited by parsecskin; 06-07-2017, 07:15 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by parsecskin View Post
              Breaks are needed to allow blood to flow. When they do skin expansion for burn victims and such, a balloon is inserted under the skin and inflated. There is no restricti9n of blood flow. A foreskin restoration device habits very nature does inhibit blood flow to some degree. Hence breaks are necessary.
              I think the OP was referring to taking days off, rather than brief rest periods to allow for a return of blood flow.
              If I'm wrong on that, then I misunderstood what he was saying. In fairness, I did mention that constant tension isn't possible. My point was that what I've found in my research on the subject indicates that the amount of time tension is applied, and the amount of tension, directly correlate to the speed of tissue growth.
              It would then follow, logically, that even though constant tension isn't doable (for a variety of reasons), the more time you go without tension, the less growth you'll see.
              But, yes, you're absolutely right. The devices need to be taken off once in a while (especially the DTR. That SoB really cuts blood flow) to allow some circulation to return to the area.
              Last edited by The Metal One; 06-07-2017, 10:09 PM.

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              • #8
                Thanks guys

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by I<3Forskin View Post
                  Thanks guys
                  No problem, man. Best of luck in reaching your goal.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by The Metal One View Post
                    A medical study I read, regarding tissue expansion (the technical term for what we're doing), found that constant tension caused faster growth than intermittent tension. The difference was very significant, but I can't recall the exact percentage. Same study also found that the higher the tension, the faster the tissue grew. Again, it was a significant difference. It also noted that the higher the tension, the higher the risk of damage...which should be obvious.

                    Constant tension is basically impossible, due to the nature of the area we're dealing with. However, the longer tension is applied, the more skin growth is encouraged.
                    So, to answer your question...
                    Breaks aren't beneficial, in the sense that they don't increase your results, compared to not taking breaks. You'll hear plenty of anecdotal evidence that contradicts this, so it's basically a judgement call. Personally, when I hear people claim that they see better results when taking breaks, I can't help but wonder if they're one of the people who've been restoring for 5+ years, and only reached a CI-4.
                    There are no real studies that have been conducted on FR methods. Studies regarding tissue expansion in other areas is all the "real" stuff we have to go on.
                    Take breaks when/if you feel you need them. Definitely take a break if you see even the slightest sign of injury.

                    EDIT: When I get a sec, I'll try to retrace my steps to find that study I mentioned. If I do, I'll link it here.
                    Please do, because we'll re-read it and find that you misunderstood what you were reading. So-called constant tension in the research lab is done with sophisticated equipment. That's why we can't, and never will be able to come close to constant tension. Not just because of the "area".

                    When they applied constant tension, they found that mitosis ground to a halt. Stopped. No growth at all. This is the exact opposite to what you are stating. What they did find is that cycles of tension worked. Cycles by definition is the opposite of constant. We don't have to worry about that because we don't have the kind of equipment they had. But if we did, we would absolutely not want to apply constant tension. We want growth.

                    If that article was about tissue expansion using implants (maybe that's why you used the word "medical"), then we are talking about the clinic, not the lab. Two different areas. We would need to remember that real-world practice in the clinic is anything but precise (it doesn't need to be), so there is no constant tension in the clinical area. I come from that area so I'm familiar with it. Because surgeons want to cover a wound or other defect, they are willing to grow as much as they can over a short timeframe, but they end up doing what's called super-stretching the tissue. That isn't tissue growth; far from it. The tissue is actually stretched to the limit, not expanded with growth. They are willing to do this even though it frequently produces substandard tissue, and possible necrosis. We aren't willing to do this, and again, we can't. Even if we had one available, you can't use an expander implant in soft tissue.

                    And lastly, if anyone is implying that wearing a device for long periods of time gives you constant tension (or something close to that), then that's wrong, as well. That is just constant device-wearing, not constant tension. You have to readjust the tension on devices. This equals a cycle, not "constant".

                    Blood flow is not a problem for us, so referring to it as part of the scenario is pointless. It just indicates that you need to do more research. We always have blood flow to tissues when we use fingers or devices. Which is why I said the OP has no problems. A guy on the old forum used to say the following (paraphrased): "Science does not transfer to what we do. It just does not; their focus is very different. So is the focus and practice in the clinical area. In several areas it implies a point or two, but it will never transfer directly". He's right. So trying to do that, as though we can, with words and mistaken concepts, won't help anybody.

                    Take breaks, tug, produce skin on your skin's timetable. Because ... it won't do anybody else's timetable, ever. Thinking that somebody has found an end-run around this, be it home grown, in the lab or in the clinic, is an old, old forum misunderstanding of what actually happens.

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                    • #11
                      BOOM!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by parsecskin View Post
                        BOOM!
                        Did it fire when you were cleaning it? Bet it put the rod right into the wall.

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                        • #13
                          No, I always clear the tugger before I clean it. Pretty difficult to do with a round in the chamber. I was referring to your response to the metal one. He stepped on a landmine. You saved him.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by parsecskin View Post
                            No, I always clear the tugger before I clean it. Pretty difficult to do with a round in the chamber. I was referring to your response to the metal one. He stepped on a landmine. You saved him.
                            : )

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                            • #15
                              Here's a highly simplified schematic of tissue growth (not super stretching) when expander-influenced stretch is out at full "lock", causing the tissue to respond by increasing it's area, ie "growth". "Lock" is the physiological limit of skin.

                              Is this what we do? We don't know. Why don't we know? Because we don't really know if we are approaching the physiological limit each time we tug. But we do get growth, so........probably? I'd say yes; skin's basic ersponse is the same in both cases, expanders or fingies. Unless, you stretch that "lock" past the tissue's built-in physiological limit. Then you get some superstretched tissue along with, and pain, and potential damage. And yes, that's when blood flow becomes an issue (hence the by now forum-famous entry of Papaverine Hcl into the experiment). Balloons hurt (and they carry their own side effects, and other risks). Ask any patient who's had this done. They will look at you and frown, and if you have a saline-filled syringe in your hand they will run.



                              https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...021/figure/F2/

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