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Making the Conversation Public and Talking to Friends

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  • Making the Conversation Public and Talking to Friends

    For context I'm just going to be frank with it, I am an eccentric fuck. Currently I have Luciano Pavarotti blasting from a record player as I sit on the porch in my apartment complex overlooking my university. I have a ton of nordic art in my room, a gecko, decent sized fish tank, I'm 6'5" and wear a tie almost everyday. I don't really care how I am perceived in the private sense to the effect that I am blunt in almost all matters and have thus filtered fair weather friends from my life (honestly being unapologetically myself was one of the best decisions of my life) but for business/school I work to maintain a respectable demeanor. As I am a college student and with the political polarization happening in America currently you can gain an appreciation for how difficult this has become. My number one icebreaker with new people I meet is, "tell me your most controversial opinion". I do this because I absolutely despise prattle. The most common responses involve the abortion debate or some marxist ideology only an unworldly arts major can fathom. I constantly push people to break the boundaries of our indoctrinated 'proper conversation topics' spouting, "the only topic that offends me is the predominant culture of male genital cutting/circumcision in America". The former undoubtably swinging the conversation into my court had I had to push them.

    Herein lies my struggle, girls are really easy to talk on the subject as one can convert them simply by showing them a video of the procedure and explaining that it is a cultural tradition rooted in diminishing the pleasure of not only sex for both partners but masturbation for the eventual man as well. Comparing the STD rates of America to Europe and providing claim that every western medical association is against the procedure and it is literally a sacrifice for aesthetic purpose only bolsters the previous points. I usually end with, "would you rather your son say 'I wish you did' or 'I wish you didn't'". However the only issue I have had thus far is with one girl currently in a longterm relationship with a Jewish man and that she probably wouldn't have a choice not to and that doing so makes it cleaner because it "removes the biome". To which I responded, "that biome is meant to be there, every single mammalian species has some mirror anatomy and evolution tends toward fitness therefore your comment isn't an argument. When it comes to the cultural aspect I must remind you that this baby will in fact become a person just as consciously and sexually aware as yourself with their own unique aspects and takes on the world, to remove part of his body simply because he is male is an affront to his person and it is of the utmost hypocrisy that you won't genitally mutilate your daughter in the same way." To which she said, 'there isn't an equivalent' and I retorted, "removing the labia minora and clitoral hood will remove the external biome of the female genitals" and she had nothing else to say but sticking to her assumed hypocritical mutilating intentions as if it is "just a flap of skin". EDIT- FMG victims can be better off or worse off than routinely cut males in America but the fact remains when dealing with the American/western populous laws are on the books to defend a female child from even a needle prick but a males is cut "because its better for him" and the skin is sold to beauty companies. We shouldn't be comparing pains/grief but agreeing that ALL children, people, have the right to their body unaltered by others.

    When it comes to guys my age the conversation is usually riddled with, "I like mine the way it is" or "it should be this way it's cleaner" etc. etc.. I then ask them to rub their forefinger on the palm and then the back of their hand and ask if their ego is worth that much of a difference in sensation. What it usually boils down to is their psyche's refusal to admit they hath been mistreated by their parents and they are missing out on something they will never know the full extent of. I provide information on foreskin restoration and where online to look as well as try and plead the right of their future sons not to be mutilated in the same way they were, so that the next generation can learn from the past so to speak. The conversations usually get emotionally charged and I've had moments where I will be yelled at with, "it's not your son (my name) so it's not your choice because if I don't circumcise him he will never get it done", and I will calmly respond, "exactly your son would never recklessly have his body mutilated unless you intervened; I know it's not my choice but I also know it isn't your body thus it isn't your choice either".

    Inevitably I am asked the question, "Do you still have a foreskin" about 75% of the time and I remark, "I am currently restoring my foreskin" to an astonished look. When pushed I'll further explain, "I am the child that said, 'I wish you didn't', and I hope you'll learn from my experience so that you won't think of me when your child says the same twenty years from now".

    So herein lies the dilemma, I feel I have survivors guilt for the potential children of the people I cannot sway. What are your opinions on the matter of talking with people and how have you dealt with those you cannot get through to?EDIT- Infant genital cutting is an indefensible "practice" I just can't understand how it isn't common knowledge to be against this, at least in the developed world, it is willful ignorance. I can't even perceive how my parents lacked such critical thinking, it makes me laugh thinking about it.
    Last edited by Into The North; 06-27-2017, 10:09 AM. Reason: Marked/brain fart

  • #2
    Personally, I think it's a bad idea to shoulder this burden as you, and a few others I've seen on this forum, seem to be trying to do.
    Yes, infant circumcision is wrong, and it would be best for it to go away. If someone wants to be an intactivist, I see nothing wrong with that. However, taking it upon oneself to lecture others on what they should do is not the way to affect positive change. It will just frustrate you (and possibly ostracize you, if you gain a reputation as someone who makes a habit of starting heated discussions about circumcision), and pisses off the people who feel like they have to dig their heels in because you're essentially attacking their sense of morality. I'm sure this isn't your intention, but that is probably the way it's perceived by those who aren't receptive to the discussion.
    It's basically the equivalent of someone pro-life standing in front of an abortion clinic, giving their opinion to the women going in. This analogy is a bit hyperbolic, but you get my meaning.

    People are going to make their own decisions. That's just the way it is. Some of these choices are morally repugnant, but the people who make them are the ones that need to live with those choices.
    If you feel that you need to spread the word about the evils of circumcision, it would probably be best to do so in a less forceful way. Make it known (in a vague way) that you oppose circumcision, and simply be there to answer any questions someone might have, or provide them with information if they want it.

    If you feel this isn't enough, perhaps you should seek information on how to get more involved with the actual intactivist movement. Perhaps working to fight this issue in a more organized way will assuage your survivor's guilt, and I'm sure the movement can always use more active participants. Or, maybe just try to inform more guys about foreskin restoration. There are a LOT of guys out there who have never heard of it, and while some or maybe most will shrug it off and say they're happy the way they are...that's fine. They may not have chosen to get cut, but they can make the choice if they want to stay that way. FR doesn't come with the same issues of morality that infant circumcision does, so the worst response you're likely to get is simply a lack of interest.

    I wouldn't be surprised if my opinion ended up being in the minority, on this forum, but I felt compelled to give it nonetheless.

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    • #3
      I thank you for it because I can honestly see this point in response to the way I provided my context on the situation(s). I don't believe your hypothetical was hyperbolic because I can honestly see that comparison I've just never thought of it. However the line, "People are going to make their own decisions. That's just the way it is. Some of these choices are morally repugnant, but the people who make them are the ones that need to live with those choices." is a slippery slope without the slope so to speak because the only backlash in this example is an upset son. And for the parent(s) there isn't a tactile consequence for those who made the decision. I think I will change my perspective however and just get one of Ron's bumper stickers and slap in on my laptop/water bottle being open to the questions that'd come. Also, I'm afraid "survivors guilt" was also a bit too strong because I don't lose sleep over the issue I just get mad so i apologize. I digress, thank you for your input!
      Last edited by Into The North; 06-27-2017, 11:25 AM. Reason: Clarity

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      • #4
        There are some people you can NEVER convince that it's wrong. They are so feeble minded and brainwashed. Sheeple I like to call them. These are the very same people who, when the shit hits the fan and they have to fend for themselves will simply not have the critical thinking ability to survive. The ONLY way this heinous practice will stop is to have EQUAL protection under the LAW as provided by the 14th Amendment and to start locking up the violators who continue. In the mean time educate those you can (Elephant in the Hospital is excellent) and don't worry about the rest. You can't save everyone.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Into The North View Post
          I thank you for it because I can honestly see this point in response to the way I provided my context on the situation(s). I don't believe your hypothetical was hyperbolic because I can honestly see that comparison I've just never thought of it. However the line, "People are going to make their own decisions. That's just the way it is. Some of these choices are morally repugnant, but the people who make them are the ones that need to live with those choices." is a slippery slope without the slope so to speak because the only backlash in this example is an upset son. And for the parent(s) there isn't a tactile consequence for those who made the decision. I think I will change my perspective however and just get one of Ron's bumper stickers and slap in on my laptop/water bottle being open to the questions that'd come. Also, I'm afraid "survivors guilt" was also a bit too strong because I don't lose sleep over the issue I just get mad so i apologize. I digress, thank you for your input!
          No problem, man. I'm glad you were able to get something useful out of what I said.

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