Having a baby / making choices

[Wolfy Mcblue]

Until recently (past 2 weeks) I never this was an issue. I came across all of this when my wife and I were talking about baby stuff (expecting in December!). Circumcision was brought up and i was quick to agree "of course if its a boy he will be circumcised". Luckily i am one to take a second look at things.
Being born in the USA in the 1980's, when almost everyone was circumcised, you were taught its was just a little extra skin that was removed for your benefit and given the impression that anyone uncut was somehow dirty. Spending time researching just the basics of the human anatomy (which schools do a shitty job of), I quickly realized how wrong I was in my preconception. All of those nerves and function, what a waste. We were born with the best natural PPE (personal protective equipment, if you don't know by now) you could ask for.
My wife has some reservations about keeping our baby intact. First it was "it's healthier and cleaner". After a quick debate showing how untrue that was, it changed to how it looks so different. She later confessed "I have never seen one uncircumcised". She is in the medical industry! A ICU nurse at that. What she was referring to was an erect intact penis. Show after showing her a pic of what it looks like with the foreskin pulled back it kinda hit her that it really doesn't look that different. She is still digesting all the info I gave her and I am sure she will agree with keeping our child intact if its a boy. Her last hang up seems to be "he wouldn't look like you".
That is why I am here. Just put in an order for a TLC-X. If I do have a boy, daddy will look as much like him as I can. If its a girl, I will still get all the benefits of restoration. I will be happy to break the cycle!

[Gentleman]

Wolfy~

First, Congratulations!

Second, Great that you did some re looking and reevaluating of what was ingrained in all of our minds for generations, awesome that you are breaking the cycle.

All of these pointless defenses to instill the idea that something that we are born with still prevail, (it's healthier, it's cleaner, he won't look like you, etc.) Part of the woman's movement has defended their rights/opinions with "My body, my choice" Well, where is the choice with a defenseless baby boy being strapped spread eagle on a circumstraint and then not having a choice to keep what nature provided until HE is old enough to decide?

The illustration below is a good one.



Gentle

[Wolfy Mcblue]

I am lucky my wife and I have developed good communication skills with one another. I could definitely see how this could be such a hard topic to discuss. It's one of those "everything you thought is wrong" moments. A lot of people tend to shut down and stop using logic. Its scary how easily we become "sheeple" and get mislead by societal "norms" and government "facts".

[dumanadam123]

A lot of people tend to shut down and stop using logic. Its scary how easily we become "sheeple" and get mislead by societal "norms" and government "facts".

It's harder to make people realise that they were deceived than to deceive them in the first place.

[greg_b]

Good for You!!! Way to go!!! And, welcome to the forum!

The argument that he will be traumatized or something by not looking like his dad is easily countered. My wife's first OBGYN tried that one on me, too. It just is silly. There I am, 6 feet tall, full beard, wearing glasses, but none of that will traumatize him, but his having a foreskin will? what about all my pubic hair surrounding my penis that he doesn't have? What if I had lost my leg in war, would the doctor be arguing I should have my son's leg amputated to save him from mental trauma? the more you ponder this argument, the more ridiculous it gets....

Regards

[gdom]

It's hard to accept isn't it. Good for you!

[Wolfy Mcblue]

Definitely makes you think "who the hell thought this was a good idea". Then you do the research and find out that the modern circumcision was started to take away sexual pleasure and later the establishments makes up medical justifications to keep it going, instead of just saying "we were wrong". Even the religious (jewish) origins were not as sever as what we do now. Its mind blowing.

[Reality]

Just make sure that ALL providers know your choice in the matter; not just the OB provider and his representatives (they don't always talk to each other), but also during all the well-baby visits to come. When it comes to the peds provider, tell him to NOT forcefully retract your baby's foreskin. It will be a kind of mine-field, but you are walking it for your boy, who stands to lose much more than you do

. So, I would suggest doing basic research into the issue in order to have responses you believe in, and which sound credible to the providers. And, because it's been an issue of mine, tell any back-office staff you deal with to take a flying F when THEY try to join the fray (I have never dealt with stupider personnel than back office wannabes. I have stories lol).

[Wolfy Mcblue]

I've been doing a lot of reading and it seems like it will be a constant battle to save and preserve an uncircumcised penis. Medical education level on the subject are just sad. The wife has been asking other (medical) co-workers about pros and cons of circumcision. The overwhelming response is cleanliness. When i asked for details it ended up being that none of the "trained" staff understand a natural penis is moist and when you are in hospital bed for days you get an accumulation of oil and skin cells, which caused a whitish appearance.

[Mitchell7]

The cleanliness issue is not true, without the foreskin the penis actually has more bacteria. This due to the fact that the glans, "head" of the penis is an internal organ and that the immune system eliminates bacteria on it through the foreskin. As an internal organ this is also only supposed to come out during sexual activity.

This practice started in this country only to stop boys from masturbating, many physicians did the same thing to girls at the time. If it would not stop them the first time they would do it again, always without anesthetic in order to associate the pain and suffering with their penis and if that did not work they would pour acid onto them. You can read this in the writings of john harvey kellogs and others who were promoting an end to childhood masturbation at the time, though after reading through their writings I believe some of them were more sinister than that.

What your wifes friends are telling her are absurd just on the face of them. We are talking about the sexual reproductive organs of a sexually reproducing species, obviously for any such species these are going to be the most refined parts their anatomy, because if they are not then the species would not exist. Every other species of primate has a foreskin like organ as do almost all mammals. If the foreskin needed to be cleaned so much you would be suggesting that primitive humans were regularly taking their male offspring to crocodile filled rivers in the African Savannah in order to keep their penis clean and to prevent infection. When people begin to contemplate what they are suggesting the real ridiculousness of these ideas shows quickly.

You can contrast that as well with the fact that Sherman never made sure to always find water sources so that him and his men could clean their penises as they marched through the south, that german and soviet soldiers had no problems going months without bathing while fighting in the cess filled sewers of stalingrad or that native people in all of the worlds rainforests have no problem with their penises suffering from constant, recurring infections as a result of having a foreskin.

If you are concerned about how doctors will treat your son there are many resources out there listing intact friendly doctors in your area. The number one tip i can give you is to make sure that you or no one else attempts to retract his foreskin, as it is sealed to the glans throughout most of childhood to protect the frenulum while it develops. Many men end up with problems as a result of ignorant doctors doing this to them as children. The final thing to add is that no other country in the world does this to boys in order to prevent some kinds of medical problems and most of the worlds men still have their foreskins. The thought of cutting off a part of their sons anatomy does not only never cross the mind, but is a revulsive thought to them, as it should be and would be in this country were it not for victorian era aversion to the notion of sexual pleasure or gratification and disregard for the rights of children to keep all of the parts they were born with.

[crw86]

Good for you Mr. Wolfy, and congratulations to you and your wife. Preaching to the choir here I know, but for hundreds of thousands if not millions of years of human/mammalian evolution, this one part of our anatomy somehow a mistake? "It's Cleaner" = Wash it. "Increases in Penile Cancer" = I call BS but ok, such a statistically low number as to be irrelevant, otherwise all men world wide and throughout time would be in trouble. "Prevents HIV" No circumcision most definitely does not, and whether or not your circumcised, you should be practicing safe sex so that argument is out the window. Some mostly U.S. women "Looks weird" = Oh, lets not call kettle black, everyone looks weird in their own way lol. Smh the crazy Country we live in.

[greg_b]

I've been doing a lot of reading and it seems like it will be a constant battle to save and preserve an uncircumcised penis. Medical education level on the subject are just sad. The wife has been asking other (medical) co-workers about pros and cons of circumcision. The overwhelming response is cleanliness. When i asked for details it ended up being that none of the "trained" staff understand a natural penis is moist and when you are in hospital bed for days you get an accumulation of oil and skin cells, which caused a whitish appearance.

Again, a silly argument easy to debunk. Which gender has the most UTIs? Female. Oops, better start amputating their genitals....

Ever hear any parents worry about their son not spending enough time "cleaning" their penis? Didn't think so.

Amazing how men and other male animals survived without circumcision...all those infections....

Hmmm, maybe we should rip off children's fingernails, they just do not keep them clean....

Whoa, what about peoples hands, arguably the most bacteria laden part of the human body, guess we better amputate the hands....

It is simple fearmongering.

Stand strong, expect problems, do your best.

Regards

[Wolfy Mcblue]

I think the hardest thing to is trying to break through the social norm that circumcision is a good thing. What really suprises me is how unsympathetic the females are on the subject. When you draw up a comparison on male and female genital mutilation similarities, you "that's diffrent". Equal rights my ass.

[Mitchell7]

In the case of what they do to girls in Indonesia it is actually much less severe than what is done to boys in this country. All they do in that case is nick the clitoral hood of girls, as opposed to cutting off the entire foreskin and usually the most erogenous part of the penis, which is the frenulum.

What area of the country do you live in? In the west coast and areas with a lot of Hispanics the attitude is a lot different than in the midwest or parts of the east coast. Also age is making a big impact as younger people are much more against this practice and are leading the charge in ending it.

Some women are sympathetic and have even attended protests about it, there just aren't that many of them. There are a lot more that are passively opposed to it by not allowing it to be done to their children. Of course the only reason that this is done to children is that they can't do anything about it, which is why i continue to believe that the only hope we have of truly ending this practice is to have foregen succeed in their goal of regenerating the human foreskin. They made a big leap recently when they became the first organization to decellularize the human foreskin. They have taken a big hit though due to the coronavirus being based in Italy as they are. Consider checking them out and spreading the word if you can.

[salamander6773]

It seems, women can be the most stigmatized about circumcision. At times I wonder, what am I doing? After reading about women hating the foreskin.

But it's a no brainer, having a foreskin is great! Let your son make a decision for himself as he gets older if he decides he wants to be like everyone else... Restoration won't come close to the real thing, and takes YEARS!!!