Rollover point explanation (for non-engineers, please :D)

[bdtater]

I recall a few highly detailed (and to me, mind-spinning/numbing) explanations of the future flaccid rollover point on the old forum...even a couple of links to diagrams. But I still don't believe I'm completely clear on it.

Is there anyone that can give a very basic explanation of this - as if I'm 10 years old - or answer the questions below? Might be useful for new members as well, or for those that no longer have access to such info, since the old forum was lost.

1) How important is it to designate a rollover point? If I were to simply stretch both outer and inner skin without one until complete (using bi-directional tension), what would be the result?
2) Is there a standard rollover point that restorers usually pinpoint (seems that I've seen 'behind the circumcision scar' most often)?
3) When should one start figuring this out? Does someone at my stage, for instance - mid to end (hopefully) of CI3 - need to be concerned about it at this point?
4) How does one go about designating the best FFRP?

Thanks in advance!

[Swingshiftworker]

Here is my response to your questions but, if you're looking for "answers," you probably will not find my response all that useful.

1) Not very important. I don't really think you have any control over it. You'll get "rollover" when you have enough skin to achieve it.

2) Nothing is standard in FR. I never believed there was a way to promote inner vs outer skin growth.

I've used a heavy PUD and Tugger to achieve the growth I have, which is at CI-6/7 (from CI-1) and, as far as I know, both outer and inner skin grew at an equal pace based on the consistent location of my circ scar. I can now pull my foreskin about 2" past the tip of the glans but it never stays there because of the extreme elasticity of my skin.

It stays rolled over the glans 100% of the time now but some days only 1/2 my glans is covered, while other days all of it is covered. That's how it is for a "grow-er" like me. I achieved "roll over" when I had enough skin to roll over the edge of my glans but only stayed over the glans for any length of time when I had enough skin to cover about 1/4 of the glans.

3) Don't think you need to worry about it. If you just keep tugging, it will eventually happen but it happens so slowly that you'll only experience frustration if you worry about it.

4) I think attempting to designate the "best" anything in FR is a futile effort Just keep tugging or doing whatever you do to promote foreskin growth and you'll eventually achieve the results you want.

BTW, I've been involved in FR for about 25 years with lots of gaps in between. The total cumulative time I've been tugging is probably only about 3-4. I've been actively tugging daily again for the past 6 months and, even so, progress is very slow. The key is just to be patient. Everyone is different and progress will come to you at your own rate as long as you continue to tug consistently.

Good luck!

[Guest]

I recall a few highly detailed (and to me, mind-spinning/numbing) explanations of the future flaccid rollover point on the old forum...even a couple of links to diagrams. But I still don't believe I'm completely clear on it.

Is there anyone that can give a very basic explanation of this - as if I'm 10 years old - or answer the questions below? Might be useful for new members as well, or for those that no longer have access to such info, since the old forum was lost.

1) How important is it to designate a rollover point? If I were to simply stretch both outer and inner skin without one until complete (using bi-directional tension), what would be the result?
2) Is there a standard rollover point that restorers usually pinpoint (seems that I've seen 'behind the circumcision scar' most often)?
3) When should one start figuring this out? Does someone at my stage, for instance - mid to end (hopefully) of CI3 - need to be concerned about it at this point?
4) How does one go about designating the best FFRP?

Thanks in advance!

1. Definition of "roll over point": Depends on what you mean by it, there are several meanings. The usual meaning just describes the area where your loose skin can be pulled or rolled down to, thereby creating a tube, or said in a different way, the 'roll over point' is the leading edge of the skin tube your loose skin makes when its pulled down. More and more skin (over time) equals a "roll over point" that rests more distal. You don't create this "point" somehow, it happens by itself as you grow more, and more skin. The other meaning: "roll over point" used to mean that point in time (not a physical point on your skin) when you've grown enough skin for the loose skin begins to roll over the corona and stay there most of the time. As you can see, two different meanings (although they align with each other).

2. You have control over somehow choosing a point on your skin, but where that area rests after you stop tugging is just a factor of how much skin you have at any one time. You either have enough skin to rest as a tube (short, longer, and all the points in between), or you don't. So this "point' isn't up to you, it's up to your skin (how much of it you have) and the features (corona, etc) that it has to cover. You can choose a point on your skin as the leading edge, in order to fix it in place while you tug, but it won't be a leading edge there permanently; not before, or during or after you unroll your skin.

3. So swingshift is right, not important, not really under your control in a permanent way, or in other words, you can't make it or designate it, it makes itself. So don't worry. As you go along all this will explain itself.

This may not be something the average 10 year old gets right away, but going through it, and watching what happens over the years it takes, will show you what you want to know.

[parsecskin]

Ideally, you want your point of rollover to be About 1/4-3/8 of an inch below your scarline. Most guys need to grow a lot more outer skin than inner. So until you have a lot of slack skin, don't even worry about it. JUST GROW SKIN!

[admin]

You have control over somehow choosing a point on your skin, but where that area rests after you stop tugging is just a factor of how much skin you have at any one time. You either have enough skin to rest as a tube (short, longer, and all the points in between), or you don't. So this "point' isn't up to you, it's up to your skin (how much of it you have) and the features (corona, etc) that it has to cover. You can choose a point on your skin as the leading edge, in order to fix it in place while you tug, but it won't be a leading edge there permanently; not before, or during or after you unroll your skin.

The whole point of using the Future Flaccid Roll-over Point formula to choose a spot on your present skin to target is that it PREDICTS the location of that roll-over point on your future restored skin tube. You can repeat the calculation if your goal changes or as you get closer to that goal. Like any prediction, it's most accurate with things occurring less far into the future.

[Swingshiftworker]

Ron: I didn't know there even was a Future Flaccid Roll-over Point Formula. So, I Googled it and came up with this from the Tugger FAQs:

"Future Flaccid Rollover Point (FFRP):

How do I get the most natural look?

The swappable Pusher is one of the unique features of the TLC-X that will give you unparalleled control over the natural looking taper of your final restored result.

Generally beginners don’t worry about Pusher length, but as you gain slack, swapping in a longer Pusher lets you easily keep a constant part of
your skin tube acting as the induced roll-over point (at the narrowest part of the device) while you tug.

If you calculate the location of your Future Flaccid Roll-over Point (FFRP) on your present skin, then choosing the right Pusher will let you keep the FFRP acting as the induced roll-over point so you be sure that the FFRP will be as puckered as possible when you’re restored.

See this link to calculate your FFRP http://Foreskin-Restoration.net/foru...2&postcount=44. Note that one of the numbers you need is not a measurement but an assumption you’ll make about your goal state. It’s the Forced Erect Coverage (FEC) you’ll have when you’re done.

Some guys will feel “done” when they can force skin over 100% of the glans. This will mean they can enjoy some slinking and gliding during intimacy. Others will work for 150% (able to force the skin “half the glans length” past the tip while erect). This means they can probably show flaccid coverage for quite a while before the skin rolls off the glans. Some guys aren’t happy until they have 200% – 300% because they want to be able to sleep with no device and never get uncovered (despite nocturnal erections).

See this link to calculate your present FEC http://foreskin-restoration.net/foru...90&postcount=1. Measure it monthly and you can then guage how long it will take to reach your FEC goal." See: http://tlctugger.com/faq-full-text/

The only problem is that the links to the FFRP formula that were embedded in the text are no longer functional because they apparently reference message threads in the old site, which are long gone.

So, it would be useful if you can re-post the FFRP formula here or insert the formula in the FAQs for everyone to see. Thanks!

[mjwise]

I copied the the FFRP spreadsheet into a tab of my google drive tugging tracker that you can find here.

[javeflake]

It is possible to target inner or outer skin with manual method 2. I want to eventually end up with the scar line just a few mm inside while soft, as this seems to result in the best natrual look.