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I think we should stop calling ourselves victims

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Rockshe9 View Post
    Completely true, but it's usually those that see the truth or know the information but reject it that are the issue, those that don't know the information are not, because they haven't had it presented to them. but nonetheless it's still partly the fault of men that get their sons cut because they are cut that is the problem.
    re: "It's partly the fault of men that(sic) get their sons cut because they are cut that is the problem". I was with you in the first part, can't blame the ignorant. It's like blaming a blind man for bumping into a pillar; he didn't know it was there. Of course RM wants 'em blamed. But "men that get their sons cut" is hardly "the problem". That's simply NOT what drives RIC. That's what drives the hate here, though.

    Blame isn't grief. Hate isn't grief. Grieve, go for it, but blame? That's hate.

    I sent you a PM. I think that's what you're referring to.

    {admin: this message edited to save me having to give anyone a time-out.}
    Last edited by Info; 09-27-2016, 07:22 PM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Info View Post

      Aside from your mangled syntax, what gdom said is not "completely true", it's bullshit. Got that? Bullshit. Everything about it was bullshit. That's the problem I have.Your belief (vs knowledge) that "it's completely true" is bullshit too.

      But the real issue? "It's partly the fault of men that(sic) get their sons cut because they are cut that is the problem". I was with you in the first part, can't blame the ignorant. It's like blaming a blind man for bumping into a pillar; he didn't know it was there. Of course RM wants 'em blamed. But "men that get their sons cut" is hardly "the problem". That's simply NOT what drives RIC. That's what drives the hate here, though. I wonder if you realize that ...well, I know you don't because you don't have the information or the experience.

      All you have is what you've heard on the internet. You probably heard it here, or somewhere else on the internet. But it's wrong. You can do all the ignorant "us vs them" bullshit you want in this section, it's expected, but also expect to get called on it, because it's wrong. And if you drag it over to Intactivism? I'll call that out, too; especially then because it's wrong and ass-backward stupid. Blame isn't grief. Hate isn't grief. Grieve, go for it, but blame? That's hate. And what's been cited in this thread is ignorant hate.

      I sent you a PM. I think that's what you're referring to. Might help if you could muster up some actual specific language and say that. Doesn't sound like you have much skill in that, though, so I'm helping you out here. Otherwise, the post of mine above is hardly only to you, although I know in this section it's all about "poor me, look what they've done". Except for RM. His game is something else.

      The post above is to the greater readership, with the purpose of providing some measure of balance, and putting a spotlight on the bullshit thought process involved in covering for an asshole. I don't give a fuck about you personally. As far as you go, you can either you do the research and find out what you don't know yet, or not, that's your problem, not mine. My guess is you won't. Staying comfortably ignorant is the M.O. in this section.

      Hope that answers your question. You didn't give much to go on.

      Waiting............waiting...................
      Well, I would usually respond to that with "Go to hell", but I don't think you quite understand who I said was to blame in the past did you? I said those Men, that even heard about the consequences from "Circumcision" in the past, or knows the information right now. But they still decide to cut their sons, or recommend others do so. You don't have to go on a hate rant at me because that is the blatant truth, I was not at all agreeing with others fully on this section, I don't call all the Men that are cut responsible, only those that know what MGM really is, but pay no attention or get their sons cut either way. Now, if I said differently in a past post, then please quote me, because obviously it must of been really late when I made that post, or I was tired. because there's no way in hell would I say that.

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      • #33
        I'm sorry but I don't understand what you are talking about and I definitely don't remember advocating suicide. Are we reading the same thread?
        Started CI-0 with no movable skin and 0% FEC

        Currently at CI-3 with 64% FEC

        See my progress gallery

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        • #34
          I would like to suggest if anyone wishes to PM someone with advice, they start by introducing themselves, perhaps their qualifications. Then ask "May I offer you some advice?"

          If no YES comes back, please leave someone's PM inbox in peace.
          -Ron Low
          Service@TLCTugger.com
          847 414-1692 Chicago

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          • #35
            Anyone who can read and comprehend on a high school level can understand what I've written in this thread. I've even said it several times in several different ways, and in several different places on this forum. So either two people here are playing dumb, or they actually are very, very slow for some reason (one of them I'm pretty sure is just plain ol' slow).

            I'm always amazed by the closed mind. It's an affliction I don't share, so it's hard for ME to comprehend. But for anyone who can read and understand, it's all right there in black and white, barring admin editing. Truth be told, I'm beyond this forum in most cases, on most subjects. I've done stuff. I'm living a life. I know that sounds arrogant, but really, sometimes it happens to be true for some people, and it's true for me, here. Imagine how disappointing this can be. I've finished tugging, reached my goal, observed the process throughout. I've studied bio sciences, and I can research, and understand the many, many facts I don't know or have forgotten. I can place them in a broader context, which nobody on forums seem to be able to do at all. Jeeze. It's actually scary.

            I saw bringing some of that information here as a counter to all the bullshit and myth. It's never appreciated, of course, that much is clear, if not the least because what I bring isn't understood by the average internet jockey, even when I dumb it down. So doing what I've done here is making less and less sense to me. Everybody gets what they deserve, including me haha.

            So time me out, do whatever, it would only ease the pain a little : ) So...............I'm back out.

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            • #36
              Please just treat all guests of the forum with patience and kindness like you would if you suspected it was actually a loved one posting. Tough love is fine. Name calling and belittlement is not the fashion here.
              -Ron Low
              Service@TLCTugger.com
              847 414-1692 Chicago

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Info View Post
                Anyone who can read and comprehend on a high school level can understand what I've written in this thread. I've even said it several times in several different ways, and in several different places on this forum. So either two people here are playing dumb, or they actually are very, very slow for some reason (one of them I'm pretty sure is just plain ol' slow).

                I'm always amazed by the closed mind. It's an affliction I don't share, so it's hard for ME to comprehend. But for anyone who can read and understand, it's all right there in black and white, barring admin editing. Truth be told, I'm beyond this forum in most cases, on most subjects. I've done stuff. I'm living a life. I know that sounds arrogant, but really, sometimes it happens to be true for some people, and it's true for me, here. Imagine how disappointing this can be. I've finished tugging, reached my goal, observed the process throughout. I've studied bio sciences, and I can research, and understand the many, many facts I don't know or have forgotten. I can place them in a broader context, which nobody on forums seem to be able to do at all. Jeeze. It's actually scary.

                I saw bringing some of that information here as a counter to all the bullshit and myth. It's never appreciated, of course, that much is clear, if not the least because what I bring isn't understood by the average internet jockey, even when I dumb it down. So doing what I've done here is making less and less sense to me. Everybody gets what they deserve, including me haha.

                So time me out, do whatever, it would only ease the pain a little : ) So...............I'm back out.

                It's fairly funny, you think your the only one here that does anything for the Intactivist movement. Well, think again... I don't do anything, well rarely on a forum of like-minded individuals. Not much point, no. I do my part on other forums, social media, offline, threw messages. Not just preaching to other people how "ignorant, and retarded" they are. Stop wasting you're time, and especially our time by posting nonsense or taking your grief out on other Members. It's just plain annoying. We get it you're mad because someone is disagreeing with you're opinion.. but don't resort to what Religious groups do, and call others ridiculous names, and start arguments that no one but you cares about. I am surprise you haven't resorted to the point of calling us "Heathens". and... going on a rant about how "my opinion" is the greatest in the land. Now would you mind, not messaging me in the future, if you do message me another annoying rant, filled with calling me names. I will ignore you, so do not waste your time.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Arjay View Post
                  I really do
                  You may not consider yourself a victim. But other do. By the time I was 16, I had already tried to kill myself 2 times and been sent to a mental hospital. I've been todo I have ptsd directly linked with it. Body image issues because of it and i still want it all to just end. If you consider female circumcison to be barbaric and fro them to be victims, why couldn't do make the same link with me? I present all the same symptoms

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                  • #39
                    Yup I also suffered SEVERE depression and nearly ended up dead. The jealously and pain I feel towards other intact men is overwhelming and even prevents me from ever wanting a son. My wife was with only two men before me, but both were uncut. I cannot even explain the shame, envy, and rage this brings in me knowing that they will have not only felt more with her but that she would have too. I'm not sure I would have cared if she had been with cut men, but it's just too much.

                    Things like this should not even be an issue. Can you imagine... a full grown man afraid to have a son because he doesn't want to be envious of his penis?! Sounds insane... but I actually would in some bizarre way feel compelled to circumcise, so it's no wonder so many do.

                    Cutting is SURELY abuse and I DO feel like a victim to a horrible crime.
                    Started CI-0 with no movable skin and 0% FEC

                    Currently at CI-3 with 64% FEC

                    See my progress gallery

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Arjay View Post
                      We're grown ass men. Your foreskin being cut off is worse than a woman with no feet or hands?
                      Somebody already alluded to this earlier about the no limbs point of view.

                      If I was born (God given) without a foreskin/circed due to some defect, I would have no issue at all and not feel like a victim. If I was hit by a car and lost a limb I would not feel like a victim, if I was struck by a deadly disease tomorrow, I would not feel like a victim! The list goes on...

                      This is not about whether some one is worse off which your point seems to rest on but more about being left with an emotional and physical bag of sh*t that you had no choice or power in thanks to another cruel, ignorant, shallow, parochial, circumsexual, heedless, emotionally selfish human being! But I appreciate the point you make that there is someone worse off than just missing a foreskin, however they probably had more of a choice in avoiding and preventing a missing limb or like I mentioned earlier was born/god given or naturally caused and not by the hands of another human who should know better.

                      So yes I feel like a victim but everyday I restore and see progress is a day closer to feeling empowered again.
                      Last edited by Restoration-elz; 07-23-2017, 01:29 AM.

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                      • #41
                        Exactly... somebody tied you down and did this to you. It permanently altered your life and you had no control. If that's not being a victim, I don't know what is!
                        Started CI-0 with no movable skin and 0% FEC

                        Currently at CI-3 with 64% FEC

                        See my progress gallery

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by gdom View Post
                          somebody tied you down and did this to you.
                          And what "this" is varies haphazardly from person to person, so it's hard to second guess how victimy somebody else should feel.
                          -Ron Low
                          Service@TLCTugger.com
                          847 414-1692 Chicago

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by admin View Post

                            And what "this" is varies haphazardly from person to person, so it's hard to second guess how victimy somebody else should feel.
                            Exactly. The most harmed men are actually DEAD, be it by suicide or post-operative complications. Let that ink in.
                            Started CI-0 with no movable skin and 0% FEC

                            Currently at CI-3 with 64% FEC

                            See my progress gallery

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              There are those who want to continue to identify themselves as a victim, whatever else they do in this life. And there are those who've decided to define themselves in their own terms. At some point they decide who they are and who they will be. And this group refuses to give away this right to decide, ESPECIALLY to the practice which put them here, by calling themselves "victims".

                              This is the bottom line in this argument. All personal agendas aside (and you can bet there are some), this is the fundamental way to look at which group you want to belong to.

                              In effect, it goes like this:

                              "I'm what they made me, a victim" ... vs ... "I'm what I say I am, not a victim". And everything after that comes out of these two positions.




                              And by the way, seems a simple choice to me.
                              Last edited by Info; 07-19-2017, 10:40 PM.

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                              • #45
                                If circumcision has not positively impacted your life from your perspective as it was against your will. Yes the one who is ACTUALLY circumcised. Then by default your a victim whether you see yourself as one or not.

                                Victim:
                                a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action.
                                a person who is tricked or duped.
                                a person who has come to feel helpless and passive in the face of misfortune or ill-treatment.

                                We obviously all mutually agree we have been harmed otherwise we would not be restoring and be happy with the circumcisions we were GIVEN.

                                I think some of you guys are confusing being a victim with passiveness or helplessness which I am certainly not helpless nor passive even though I consider myself a victim and neither is anyone taking control of there manhood by restoring!

                                Also by not considering yourself a victim of this abominable practice you are only lowering the severity of the circumcision mentality IMO ;-)
                                Last edited by Restoration-elz; 07-23-2017, 01:19 AM.

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