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"Woman ‘Pierces’ Her Baby Daughter’s Cheek and Angers the Internet"

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  • "Woman ‘Pierces’ Her Baby Daughter’s Cheek and Angers the Internet"

    Here's a link to the relevant article. A second article can be found here.

    Please read the article before commenting. She photoshopped a stud on her daughter's cheek and wrote,

    It looks so cute, right?!! I just know she's gonna love it!! She'll thank me when she's older lol If she decides she doesn't like it, she can just take it out, no big deal [. . .] I'm the parent, she is MY CHILD, I will do whatever I want!! I make all of her decisions until she's 18, I made her, I own her!! I don't need anyone's permission, I think it's better, cuter, & I prefer her to have her dimple pierced. Its NOT abuse!! If it was, it would be illegal, but it's not. People pierce their babies everyday, this is no different.
    She then included the hashtags #BodilyIntegrity, #MyBodyMyChoice, #HumanRights, #ChildrensRights, #Intactivism, #IntactGeneration, and #sarcasm.

    She posted this satirically to promote intactivism and point out the double standard we have to small cosmetic procedures on baby girls versus significant cosmetic procedures on baby boys' genitals.

    Keeping in mind that having a lot of public attention can be incredibly tiring, I suggest dropping her a line and praising her for standing up for what is right. I've seen similar satirical statements elsewhere (I recall seeing an article along the lines of, "Why I Chose to Tattoo My Daughter" Found it!) but every little bit of good helps. Kudos to her!

    Edit: Found the other satirical article.
    Last edited by eeeee; 07-03-2017, 03:07 AM.

  • #2
    By the way, check out the original Facebook post and the comments on it. (I won't post a link here out of deference to her privacy.) Forum members here should take note as to how many women are posting supportive (i.e., intactivist) comments. I understand first-hand the resentment that many of us have toward (some) women and the blind eye that they turn to circumcision, but I also wish more people here appreciated that women can and should be our greatest allies in this fight. I, for one, am not open to discussing the state of my genitals with my friends and family, so this stranger on the internet has done it for me. And if women suddenly decided that intact penises are more aesthetically pleasing, I'm convinced that routine infant circumcision would stop practically overnight. In these times of almost relentless negativity, I encourage others to seek out help from the opposite sex and offer encouragement to those who speak up.


    • #3
      I'm a little taken aback by the hostility in your post. Is it directed at me?


      • #4
        I think you've deeply misinterpreted my posts and have a very skewed perception of who I am.

        I'd like to begin by drawing attention to this phrase in my second post:
        In these times of almost relentless negativity, I encourage others to seek out help from the opposite sex and offer encouragement to those who speak up.
        And your response to my urging people to reach out and find allies in this battle was... relentlessly negative.

        Furthermore, you say
        Did you really think all of us [resent women]? Or even most?
        Well, let's take a look at what I wrote...
        I understand first-hand the resentment that many of us have toward (some) women...
        Oh. It looks like I never implied that all or even most of the members here are resentful. I just said "many". And you know what? I'm right, damn it.

        Maybe you've mercifully purged it from your memory, but I distinctly remember the poll I posted to the original forum asking people's opinions on feminism. Responses were varied, but nearly half of the respondents said, "Feminism is antithetical to our cause and should be stopped." Remember threads about MRA and MGTOW? True, many of the members of our previous forum are gone, but I see some familiar names and I still see hints of misogyny bubbling up every now and then. Tangential to this point, I'd like to draw your attention to this poll on our members' political leanings. I wouldn't dare say that men's rights activists are exclusively or even necessarily predominantly conservative, but I perceive that there is a lot of overlap.

        You want to know what I think of conservatism? I abhor it. I hate what it's doing to America and the rest of the world right now. I think it's an ideology based on the complete fantasy that in this modern world we can somehow live our lives as we see fit without negatively affecting others. Likewise, while I appreciate that MRAs have taken an explicit stance against circumcision, I'm disgusted that the movement has aligned itself explicitly against feminism and seems to treat the pursuit of gender equality as a zero sum game.

        But as a liberal person, I've come to accept that conservatives and MRAs and the like have every bit as much right to be here as anyone else. What most (and in this case, I do say with confidence "most") people here understand that having a sensitive part of your body forcibly removed from you against your will and realizing you can never get it back is an emotionally agonizing experience. It messes with your head and I can easily see how someone could reach intactivism through, for example, a libertarian philosophy or believe that circumcision remains common practice because society puts disproportionately more concern into the hardships of women. Grief knows no political ideology.

        I said that, "I understand first-hand the resentment that many of us have toward (some) women." Read that again. I said I understand it. I never said I condone it. I believe that many or most of us have a dark place we turn to when we're feeling grief about what was done to us. Some may resent women, some may fetishize circumcision, and some may have other "impure" thoughts that we wouldn't dare share with the world.

        This is normal. Don't be the thought police. While grappling with the reality of never being whole again, a wide range of emotions (e.g., denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance) can surface as our brains attempt to come to terms with what as done to us. It is okay to admit that you sometimes feel resentment toward women, as I've done above. It is okay to feel any way you damn please.

        What is not okay is acting on these emotions in inappropriate ways. When I feel resentful toward women (which is rare), I don't lash out at anyone or post online about how feminism is evil and intactivism and feminism will never coexist. That kind of talk will only drive a wedge between people and get nothing accomplished. What will get things accomplished is recognizing allies-- male and female-- in the world and putting out a positive message. While we don't have much control over our emotions, we do have control over our actions.

        Please reread my second post. You'll see that I was trying to point out that, contrary to a somewhat popular opinion here, a lot of women do seem to care about men's (and everyone's) right to bodily autonomy and they are speaking up. I acknowledged that I sometimes have an irrational resentment toward women, a sentiment that surely some others here share, but I immediately pivoted to highlight that it is irrational and encourage readers to spread a message of positivity and encouragement rather than negativity. You didn't get the message and demonstrated so in your reply.

        So what were my great sins in this topic? It appears that I posted it in the wrong sub-forum and I should have phrased things better. I take responsibility for those faults, but I still don't know why you've flown off the handle against me for beliefs I don't even hold.

        If you would like to continue this conversation here, I will be happy to do so, but I suggest that further discussion be taken to private messages.


        • #5
          While I suspect the conversation has run its course, I'll still take the time to address a few of your points.

          you're still pandering to the bottom line (emphasis on the bottom), the base feeling towards women which you almost, but don't quite, admit you think is here in strength.
          Okay, then I'll admit it directly: there is a resentment towards women that I think is here in strength. Conversations have been predominantly civil, thanks to our smaller numbers and diligent policing. (And with regards to that, I thank you, even though I believe your criticism towards me was misdirected.) But those members are still here and in large numbers. We can ignore them and prevent them from espousing their views or we can say, "Hey, I understand where you're coming from. I disagree, but I know how you feel and I'd like to direct you to more productive actions." I believe the latter is far more effective and it was exactly the intent of my posts.

          But the tip-off, again, is that this has nothing to to with RIC, adult circ, the primary intactivist message, and restoration. It was out of the blue, really. It was out of the blue, really. It has to do with dancing around the issue of women.
          With regards to my original post, I wholeheartedly disagree. A woman satirically posted on Facebook about piercing her daughter's cheeks and included the hashtag #intactivism in her post and her mostly female friends jumped on board with words of encouragement. Now you tell me why this has nothing to do with intactivism, RIC, and how it doesn't directly involve women, as if I shoehorned that issue in here. I honestly don't mean this in a condescending way: Did you even read the original post? Everything you've written seems to be with regards to my second post.


          • #6
            I don't know what conversation you think we're having.


            • #7
              And look at this: You hate 'em so much you jumped the gun, knowingly took your hate and turned it on a female INTACTIVIST, just because she's a female. Which is it?

              Bad move. Really bad move. But that's what hate does, rushes to judge and shoots itself in the foot, and anything, and everyone, else. So now I'm glad it's in the Intactivism section. You personally shouldn't be here, but this issue should be.



              • #8
                Children! GO TO YOUR ROOMS! YOU'RE GROUNDED!


                • #9
                  The only cookie you'll get from me is a cannabis infused one. Chill out.


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Info
                    Until you're an admin, ace, don't try to act like one.
                    You're one to talk, Info. You've tried policing this thread from the start and your behavior is creepily hypocritical to your latest post.


                    • #11
                      Hall monitor here. This show is getting good. Gonna do up some popcorn and crack a beer. Entertainment at it's best. Info, you've been punked. So easy to push your buttons, but : THE SHOW MUST GO ON. So, continue please


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Info
                        I don't tell members to "chill out".

                        Originally posted by Info
                        An open site, so you need to chill out, while I go on posting.
                        I can't make this shit up.

                        Originally posted by Info
                        Would it have been effective if I asked you to chill out on your misogyny? Kinda ineffective without first getting you to admit it, no? So that's what I did. You got caught, so you call it "policing", when anybody can go back and see what it was I actually did.

                        I pointed to your hate. I was willing to discuss your hate. I did discuss your hate. He did not, pro or con. And if you notice, you are still avoiding the fact that you tried to characterize a person who turns out to be an intactivist, somebody on our side, because she was female, and for no other reason. That's the beginning and end for you, there is no other subject important to you, and that should be pointed to, and discussed. You aimed, missed ... bleeding foot.

                        And trying to misdirect by trying to characterize me ain't gonna work either. Well.....might work for the weak-minded, maybe. You did say you have an audience here.
                        Oh please. I'm not misogynistic, I'm not hateful, and I didn't "characterize" the woman in the article. What I did do was admit a few times that I'm not perfect and I sometimes have thoughts that I'm not proud of. You are working off a very limited amount of data and hardcore trying to characterize me as some kind of malevolent MRA whose sole focus is on male superiority.

                        Gotta hand it to you, Info: I know the prudent thing would be to end the discussion-- known it since your first post-- but you keep roping me back in. Expert level trolling, whether it's intentional or not.


                        • #13
                          How about them Red Sox?