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"If circumcision is bad then why did God say to do so in the Bible?"

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  • #16
    Originally posted by salamander6773 View Post
    When is it ever a good idea, even a reasonably good idea, to touch or put any body part/member in, near or around FECAL MATTER?
    The list of things that gay men do together that straight people don't ALSO do is vanishingly small. Like, the only one I can think of is frottage, wherein you get to rub your frenulum against somebody else's.

    {edit: How could I overlook docking, duh!}
    -Ron Low
    [email protected]
    847 414-1692 Chicago

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    • #17
      Freedom to be yourself — to live by your values, except if they‘re harmful, which must be regulated by the law — is essential to my philosophy, since I don‘t believe in supernatural force or objective meaning of the universe. Everybody should be entitled to think or say, “Circumcision is good,” but should they have right to do that to any person without consent? There are Hindus who are against widow-remarriage, based on ancient values. Perhaps some would even approve widow-burning. Maybe a believer in the Maya gods wishes to sacrifice another person. All these persons should certainly have right to say that, but should they do that without punishment?
      Morality is changing constantly, and anybody has his own. However, any sane person would agree that protection of human life and one‘s body must go beyond the right to practice religion.
      Should we treat others in a way we wish they treat us? I believe it’s more important that person doesn’t do to others what he doesn’t wish to be done to him. I doubt anyone wishes to be sacrificed, burnt alive or mutilated.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by salamander6773 View Post
        Biologically speaking, and this is directed to all the so called scientists who are part of this forum. Many of you have expressed deep admiration and respect to science and anything medical, tested, researched.

        Answer me this: When is it ever a good idea, even a reasonably good idea, to touch or put any body part/member in, near or around FECAL MATTER?

        Come now, answer this question. Do you really think that "anal sex" has any value to anyone?

        No, actually it is medically DANGEROUS. Much more dangerous than restoration. But I find it funny the ones who advocate it's practice are the one advocating for science and medicine.

        Any reasonable doctor will tell you that the rectum was simply not made to be probed in this manner. FECAL MATTER is a treasure trove of every disgusting filth, bacteria, and virus known to man. The rectum walls are easily damaged, the prostate easily inflamed. And yet you prattle on as if you are enlightened.... Please enlighten me.

        Tell me again about homosexuality and how we should all tolerate it! How it is a completely reasonable thing to do!

        Discuss with me HIV, and AIDs, an epidemic of bubonic proportions....

        RUBBISH! NONSENSE! FOOLS!
        When is it a good idea to put any body part around fecal matter? Let's see... my hand when I wipe my butt, for one thing. Poop is just germy dirt. Germs are everywhere. EVERYWHERE. The last doorknob you touched has just as much potential to infect you with everything from strep throat to pinkeye as your butthole. Handling germs is a no-brainer... just don't put 'em in your mucous membranes.

        Anal sex has all kinds of value. There's some intense pleasure sensations to be found in there. People who are hung up on old books and/or easily grossed out are missing out.

        It *can* be dangerous if you're stupid. With a lubed up condom on, it's perfectly safe for both parties. With no lube, the receiver is danger of rectal tears. With no condom, both are in danger of STD's. But with a lubed condom, no problem. Even if your partner is really well endowed, the average turd is substantially larger than a penis. There's plenty of room in there. But you do gotta use lube... just like a hard constipated poop, a dry penis will make your butthole bleed.

        Homosexuality is simple. I'm a grown ass man, I meet a fellow grown ass man, we find each other attractive, and we fuck. Anyone who thinks there's some big woo woo deal involved in that has something wrong with their brain.

        How to avoid HIV/AIDs/etc: CONDOM. If you're hell bent on not using condoms, then make your first date a trip to the doctor to get tested for STD's. If you're so reckless you just have to fuck unprotected and untested, well, some people just like to live dangerously. You're in the same league as stunt men, NFL players, and MMA fighters. Nothing wrong with living on the edge if that's your passion.

        "Any doctor will tell you the rectum isn't made to be probed"... Ever heard of a prostate exam or colonoscopy? Drinking laxatives until you're shitting water and then having someone stick a camera all the way through your colon is WAY harsher on the body than putting a penis or sex toy in your rectum.

        Homosexuality got a bad rep in the old days because back then there were no condoms or STD tests, so anal sex really was a gamble. But nowadays it's fine.

        Poop isn't scary. It's inside of you right now, particles of it fly everywhere when you fart or take a shit, it's all in the seat of your pants, on every chair, on your dog's butthole, on every doorknob, and soil is literally a giant pile of bacteria poop... which has been pooped on by ants, birds, dogs, and everything else. Poopophobia mongering is a weak way to discourage gay sex.

        So is AIDs fear mongering, because vaginal sex is every bit as dangerous in terms of STDs, if not more so. There's more germs out there that can infect the vagina than the rectum. You might be a bit sexist if you're only worried about gay men's risks... What about straight women?

        Comment


        • #19
          Although this didn’t start as discussion about gay sex acts... many guys who enjoy with each other in an erotic way, don’t practice anal sex so often, and there are those who don‘t do it at all.
          Foreskin-related: Intact men who have sex with men do engage in frot/intercrural sex. Wiki article mentions a research done in Calcutta, showing Hindu men practicing it more than Muslims. Speculation is how Hindus enjoy more because of the foreskin.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by KragDragon View Post

            When is it a good idea to put any body part around fecal matter? Let's see... my hand when I wipe my butt, for one thing. Poop is just germy dirt. Germs are everywhere. EVERYWHERE. The last doorknob you touched has just as much potential to infect you with everything from strep throat to pinkeye as your butthole. Handling germs is a no-brainer... just don't put 'em in your mucous membranes.

            Anal sex has all kinds of value. There's some intense pleasure sensations to be found in there. People who are hung up on old books and/or easily grossed out are missing out.

            It *can* be dangerous if you're stupid. With a lubed up condom on, it's perfectly safe for both parties. With no lube, the receiver is danger of rectal tears. With no condom, both are in danger of STD's. But with a lubed condom, no problem. Even if your partner is really well endowed, the average turd is substantially larger than a penis. There's plenty of room in there. But you do gotta use lube... just like a hard constipated poop, a dry penis will make your butthole bleed.

            Homosexuality is simple. I'm a grown ass man, I meet a fellow grown ass man, we find each other attractive, and we fuck. Anyone who thinks there's some big woo woo deal involved in that has something wrong with their brain.

            How to avoid HIV/AIDs/etc: CONDOM. If you're hell bent on not using condoms, then make your first date a trip to the doctor to get tested for STD's. If you're so reckless you just have to fuck unprotected and untested, well, some people just like to live dangerously. You're in the same league as stunt men, NFL players, and MMA fighters. Nothing wrong with living on the edge if that's your passion.

            "Any doctor will tell you the rectum isn't made to be probed"... Ever heard of a prostate exam or colonoscopy? Drinking laxatives until you're shitting water and then having someone stick a camera all the way through your colon is WAY harsher on the body than putting a penis or sex toy in your rectum.

            Homosexuality got a bad rep in the old days because back then there were no condoms or STD tests, so anal sex really was a gamble. But nowadays it's fine.

            Poop isn't scary. It's inside of you right now, particles of it fly everywhere when you fart or take a shit, it's all in the seat of your pants, on every chair, on your dog's butthole, on every doorknob, and soil is literally a giant pile of bacteria poop... which has been pooped on by ants, birds, dogs, and everything else. Poopophobia mongering is a weak way to discourage gay sex.

            So is AIDs fear mongering, because vaginal sex is every bit as dangerous in terms of STDs, if not more so. There's more germs out there that can infect the vagina than the rectum. You might be a bit sexist if you're only worried about gay men's risks... What about straight women?
            I respectfully disagree. It defies natural laws of science, biology, and common sense. The only reason it exists is 1. mental illness, 2. extreme desperation, 3. hormonal imbalances that can probably be cured.
            PROGRESS GALLERY

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by salamander6773 View Post

              I respectfully disagree. It defies natural laws of science, biology, and common sense. The only reason it exists is 1. mental illness, 2. extreme desperation, 3. hormonal imbalances that can probably be cured.
              This here forum, the keyboard you typed your response on, and the phone in your pocket defy nature, biology, and all the behaviors natural animals evolved to exhibit. What's your point?

              Human nature is to explore everything a human can do. We can sit and stare at a box with animated pictures on it for hours, we can make art, we can roll at 60mph in a metal box propelled by burning dinosaur remains, we can invent exotic edibles and sell them for cheap in bright plastic containers, we can make noises that inspire rhythmic gyrations, we can encode information into noises and symbols that allow us to share it, we can create a vast electronic network to trade that information globally, we can split atoms and create a localized apocalypse, we can launch a human being to the moon and bring him back alive, we can cut a person open, swap out their diseased kidneys or lungs for new ones, and put them back together...

              Compared to all that, exploring sexual pleasures with the same gender and enjoying the sexy feelings inside our butthole isn't very far off the path of natural animals.

              Comment


              • #22
                Referring to the title of this thread (which has nothing to do with butt fucking), thinking that "God" "said" something to somebody is itself unproveable, undemonstrated and outright laughable given the arrogance it takes to even form that idea. Arrogance! Do the arrogant "believers" even see this point? Or are they so scared that they actually need a big daddy to run their life? Or so outright evil that they need to cite some non existent authority to get away with crimes such as neonatal circumcision. Fuck god (oh, oh, everything here just burst into flame lol), fuck false authority, fuck head-in-the-sand arrogance, and fuck putting your fellow man under authoritarian mind control. And for you butt fuckers, hopefully you can see the wisdom of penile hygiene (soap and water) in that scenario at least.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by KragDragon View Post

                  When is it a good idea to put any body part around fecal matter? Let's see... my hand when I wipe my butt, for one thing. Poop is just germy dirt. Germs are everywhere. EVERYWHERE. The last doorknob you touched has just as much potential to infect you with everything from strep throat to pinkeye as your butthole. Handling germs is a no-brainer... just don't put 'em in your mucous membranes.

                  Anal sex has all kinds of value. There's some intense pleasure sensations to be found in there. People who are hung up on old books and/or easily grossed out are missing out.

                  It *can* be dangerous if you're stupid. With a lubed up condom on, it's perfectly safe for both parties. With no lube, the receiver is danger of rectal tears. With no condom, both are in danger of STD's. But with a lubed condom, no problem. Even if your partner is really well endowed, the average turd is substantially larger than a penis. There's plenty of room in there. But you do gotta use lube... just like a hard constipated poop, a dry penis will make your butthole bleed.

                  Homosexuality is simple. I'm a grown ass man, I meet a fellow grown ass man, we find each other attractive, and we fuck. Anyone who thinks there's some big woo woo deal involved in that has something wrong with their brain.

                  How to avoid HIV/AIDs/etc: CONDOM. If you're hell bent on not using condoms, then make your first date a trip to the doctor to get tested for STD's. If you're so reckless you just have to fuck unprotected and untested, well, some people just like to live dangerously. You're in the same league as stunt men, NFL players, and MMA fighters. Nothing wrong with living on the edge if that's your passion.

                  "Any doctor will tell you the rectum isn't made to be probed"... Ever heard of a prostate exam or colonoscopy? Drinking laxatives until you're shitting water and then having someone stick a camera all the way through your colon is WAY harsher on the body than putting a penis or sex toy in your rectum.

                  Homosexuality got a bad rep in the old days because back then there were no condoms or STD tests, so anal sex really was a gamble. But nowadays it's fine.

                  Poop isn't scary. It's inside of you right now, particles of it fly everywhere when you fart or take a shit, it's all in the seat of your pants, on every chair, on your dog's butthole, on every doorknob, and soil is literally a giant pile of bacteria poop... which has been pooped on by ants, birds, dogs, and everything else. Poopophobia mongering is a weak way to discourage gay sex.

                  So is AIDs fear mongering, because vaginal sex is every bit as dangerous in terms of STDs, if not more so. There's more germs out there that can infect the vagina than the rectum. You might be a bit sexist if you're only worried about gay men's risks... What about straight women?
                  I should add, most of Krag's post here is good and factual. Be safe, butt fuckers, and know what the risks are.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I'd also like to know, when god "said" to circumcise boys, what language did he say it in? To whom did he say it? Were there witnesses, or is it just this one man whose word you trust so faithfully? What did this man do to earn such devoted trust, that 2000 years after his death you still believe unquestioningly that what he wrote was the word of god and not his own word? How can you confirm that what he wrote was translated accurately to english? Do you speak the language the bible was originally written in, and did you personally read it yourself? If not, then what did this translator do to earn such devoted trust that you would cut your own son out of faith that what he wrote was indeed an accurate translation of the word of god?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Each person has their own right to read the word of God. If it speaks to you, so be it, if not, so be it.

                      As far as evidence for the Bible being true historically and by it's message, there are numerous evidences in archaeological, historical records, scientific evidences for events which took place, and so on. I choose to believe on faith alone, and am very content. But if you are interested in evidences you can research it for yourself. History itself revolves around Christ, in fact historians understood history in terms of BC and AD until it was changed for political reasons relatively recently.

                      Many scholars accept that the people, the kings, the events, the battles, have either been cross referenced historically, or have been confirmed in archaeological digs. From the Great Flood which has evidences even in the languages of the Chinese peoples (https://www.icr.org/article/genesis-...e-pictographs/) to the dividing of the Red Sea.

                      There is a book written which actually traces every modern day family name historically back to the 12 tribes of Israel. A man went all around the world gathering family names dating back historically hundreds of years and showed how all of them are in the bible and come from ancestors of the same name/tribes. We can use the bible to trace the movement of humanity starting from the garden of Eden and scattering across the globe.

                      I have already explained the origin of circumcision and it was given to Abraham, one of three patriarchs, by none other than God. The law of circumcision no longer bears relevance to believers today. Only those still under that law who do not accept the sacrifice of Christ's death on the cross - the so called Jews of today, a name they do not actually deserve in my opinion.

                      We have relics from Christ's death on the cross which still exist today. (Google "The Holy Lance") Ask yourself this: Why would 12 grown men follow a carpenter's son, believe that he is God's Son, part of the triune GODHEAD, worship him, and ultimately travel around teaching others about what he said during his life, who he was and what it meant to follow him, only to die a horrible martyrdom at the hands of the Romans and gentiles surrounding Israel. Why would any sane person devote their whole life to the message of Christ and forfeit their lives for it's teaching???

                      At least give yourself a chance and read a Gospel and decide for yourself whether or not you believe that Christ existed, and whether or not he is who he claims to be.

                      To me, when I read the words of Christ I know that he is God. I could turn away at any moment from the faith, but I choose to believe.

                      Believing in Christ is true freedom because it allows you to understand the world and your place in it. It gives you insight into who created life itself and a motive as to why he made us. Until you are born again you are spiritually DEAD and spiritually BLIND. But he reveals himself only to his own, and not everyone can know God. Some hear the word but are deaf to it eternally. A fate only God himself knows... His flock hears his voice and follows him.

                      Jesus perfected praise from little children, when asked to keep them quiet Christ responded saying that if they did not shout their praises of him, the rocks themselves would cry out. The universe knows it's creator, even the demons tremble in fear of Christ. What did Christ say? Even if someone were to come back from the dead and tell you the truth you would still not believe... If you don't believe the words of Moses, how can you believe the words of Christ?

                      Until you believe you are trapped in worldly illusion, this reality you see is just scratching the surface, just the tip of the iceberg. There is more to come... Take the red pill Neo.
                      Last edited by salamander6773; 12-10-2019, 10:52 PM.
                      PROGRESS GALLERY

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Reality View Post
                        Referring to the title of this thread (which has nothing to do with butt fucking), thinking that "God" "said" something to somebody is itself unproveable, undemonstrated and outright laughable given the arrogance it takes to even form that idea. Arrogance! Do the arrogant "believers" even see this point? Or are they so scared that they actually need a big daddy to run their life? Or so outright evil that they need to cite some non existent authority to get away with crimes such as neonatal circumcision. Fuck god (oh, oh, everything here just burst into flame lol), fuck false authority, fuck head-in-the-sand arrogance, and fuck putting your fellow man under authoritarian mind control. And for you butt fuckers, hopefully you can see the wisdom of penile hygiene (soap and water) in that scenario at least.
                        Mind control eh? Like Communist regimes? The same ones that persecute and seek to destroy Christianity???

                        Look into Japan and the movement of Christianity that was totally obliterated by the government there.

                        For a lot of people Christianity is precious because it offers something more to this hard life on earth. It is a free choice to believe, and has nothing to do with mind control. If you are talking about the rules and laws, most were made to protect the people themselves... Rules about cleanliness and cooking, and what to eat and what not.

                        The ethics of what the bible says, love thy neighbor, love thy enemies, do onto others as you would do onto yourself, love God, honor your father and mother, do not steal, do not kill. Are these laws made only to control you??? Do they not seem like rules which SHOULD be followed as a rational, thinking, and ethical human being???

                        Don't let the corruption of the church ruin the religion. Don't let the religion ruin the truth of Christ. Humans tend to destroy and ruin anything good in life, but don't let them ruin something so pure and true... Read for yourself what Christ preached on the Mount, make your own decisions. Don't let a preacher browbeat you into belief.

                        PROGRESS GALLERY

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          By the way, do you enjoy living in America? It was founded on Christian principles by Christians who wanted the religious freedom to worship Christ as they saw fit. Go figure a nation which started on Christian principles is also a bastion for freedom worldwide. Notice Hong Kong - people waving American flags, and holding signs which read 1776.

                          But if you would rather mind-control, enjoy communism, or sharia law... Or maybe you would rather a dictator run your life? A divine right leader? Hitler, Mao, Stalin... your choice...

                          Don't you get it? They take your freedom to worship God away and force you to worship the STATE!! But you want to be controlled don't you? You hate God right? I think China would love to have you!
                          PROGRESS GALLERY

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by salamander6773 View Post
                            Each person has their own right to read the word of God. If it speaks to you, so be it, if not, so be it.

                            As far as evidence for the Bible being true historically and by it's message, there are numerous evidences in archaeological, historical records, scientific evidences for events which took place, and so on. I choose to believe on faith alone, and am very content. But if you are interested in evidences you can research it for yourself. History itself revolves around Christ, in fact historians understood history in terms of BC and AD until it was changed for political reasons relatively recently.

                            Many scholars accept that the people, the kings, the events, the battles, have either been cross referenced historically, or have been confirmed in archaeological digs. From the Great Flood which has evidences even in the languages of the Chinese peoples (https://www.icr.org/article/genesis-...e-pictographs/) to the dividing of the Red Sea.

                            There is a book written which actually traces every modern day family name historically back to the 12 tribes of Israel. A man went all around the world gathering family names dating back historically hundreds of years and showed how all of them are in the bible and come from ancestors of the same name/tribes. We can use the bible to trace the movement of humanity starting from the garden of Eden and scattering across the globe.

                            I have already explained the origin of circumcision and it was given to Abraham, one of three patriarchs, by none other than God. The law of circumcision no longer bears relevance to believers today. Only those still under that law who do not accept the sacrifice of Christ's death on the cross - the so called Jews of today, a name they do not actually deserve in my opinion.

                            We have relics from Christ's death on the cross which still exist today. (Google "The Holy Lance") Ask yourself this: Why would 12 grown men follow a carpenter's son, believe that he is God's Son, part of the triune GODHEAD, worship him, and ultimately travel around teaching others about what he said during his life, who he was and what it meant to follow him, only to die a horrible martyrdom at the hands of the Romans and gentiles surrounding Israel. Why would any sane person devote their whole life the the message of Christ and forfeit their lives for it's teaching???

                            At least give yourself a chance and read a Gospel and decide for yourself whether or not you believe that Christ existed, and whether or not he is who he claims to be.

                            To me, when I read the words of Christ I know that he is God. I could turn away at any moment from the faith, but I choose to believe.

                            Believing in Christ is true freedom because it allows you to understand the world and your place in it. It gives you insight into who created life itself and a motive as to why he made us. Until you are born again you are spiritually DEAD and spiritually BLIND. But he reveals himself only to his own, and not everyone can know God. Some hear the word but are deaf to it eternally. A fate only God himself knows... His flock hears his voice and follows him.

                            Jesus perfected praise from little children, when asked to keep them quiet Christ responded saying that if they did not shout their praises of him, the rocks themselves would cry out. The universe knows it's creator, even the demons tremble in fear of Christ. What did Christ say? Even if someone were to come back from the dead and tell you the truth you would still not believe... If you don't believe the words of Moses, how can you believe the words of Christ?

                            Until you believe you are trapped in worldly illusion, this reality you see is just scratching the surface, just the tip of the iceberg. There is more to come... Take the red pill Neo.
                            Oh I do believe I am trapped in a big illusion, but not one made by god to test my faith or something=. It's just the nature of human perception... the closest thing to the Truth - to actual reality - that we will ever know is whatever the primitive meat-computers inside our skulls manage to construct out of the meager amount of data they can acquire through their five extremely limited senses. With technology we've expanded the amount of data we can feed into our meat-computers, but it's still only a tiny insignificant tidbit of information about the *real* real world outside of our mental construct.

                            If you choose to feed your meat-computer with 2000 year old information written down back when people thought the earth was flat and didn't know that sticking germy hands in your nose is what caused sickness, well, your perception of reality will built on that foundation. If you feed it with information from modern day science books, that will be your foundation. I even started rejecting those, because they are so heavily corrupted by political agendas. If you ask me what I do believe in, I'll say... not a whole lot.

                            I base my perception on probability these days. I can't confirm whether I came to exist through evolution or god magic, but I can observe events taking place in my direct experience and place my bet on the one that seems more likely. For example, I have no direct memory of my own birth. My meat-computer wasn't recording data yet, so I can't KNOW that I came into this world via my mom's uterus and not by god snapping his fingers. But I can observe other humans and animals being born and make an educated guess that I too came into this world the same way. Most people BELIEVE they were born... I BET I was born... I try to BELIEVE as little as possible, because belief is certifiable delusion.

                            The only real belief I have is that I exist. How and why I exist, I can only take educated guesses at. But I am undeniably here, so I can believe in that. Now the past... even the past a few minutes ago in which I wrote all this text, I can only guess that it ever existed based on the data my meat computer can gather. My light sensors are taking in the data encoded in the text, and my memory records say that it was written by me, so I will wager that this post was written by me. But can I KNOW it beyond the slightest doubt? Nope. One could say it's possible that god popped the entire universe, including this post and my memories about it, into existence just one millisecond ago, and there's no denying that it is *possible*. I simply choose to wager my perception on the more likely possibility, that the universe has been here since way before I came along, and that I did indeed write this post minutes ago.

                            As for history revolving around Christ... It also revolved around Allah, Shiva, Anubis, Gaia, and many others... why should I choose Christ over Anubis? Just because Christ is more recent? By that logic, I should believe in the Big Bang and modern science, because it is the most recent theism on the block. Should I choose Christ because the majority does? Well, Islam only lags Christianity by 6%... it's basically a 50/50 between the two. And in any case, the majority has been proven wrong time and time again throughout history. Why should I believe they finally got it right for once?

                            "Why would any sane person devote their whole life the the message of Christ and forfeit their lives for it's teaching???" How do you know they were sane? They didn't even have modern medicine's definitions of mental illnesses back then. They thought things like schizophrenia and autism were devil possession, and would torture the poor person trying to drive the demons out of them. That is a long way from sane, in my perception. Modern people who display no symptoms of mental illness risk their lives just to do cool shit like climbing Mt Everest or wingsuiting down a mountainside. Seems totally believable that a person in primitive times could get it in their head that their carpenter buddy was the son of god and be willing to take a bullet for him. ...except bullets hadn't been invented yet either, that's how primitive these people were.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by KragDragon View Post

                              Oh I do believe I am trapped in a big illusion, but not one made by god to test my faith or something=. It's just the nature of human perception... the closest thing to the Truth - to actual reality - that we will ever know is whatever the primitive meat-computers inside our skulls manage to construct out of the meager amount of data they can acquire through their five extremely limited senses. With technology we've expanded the amount of data we can feed into our meat-computers, but it's still only a tiny insignificant tidbit of information about the *real* real world outside of our mental construct.

                              If you choose to feed your meat-computer with 2000 year old information written down back when people thought the earth was flat and didn't know that sticking germy hands in your nose is what caused sickness, well, your perception of reality will built on that foundation. If you feed it with information from modern day science books, that will be your foundation. I even started rejecting those, because they are so heavily corrupted by political agendas. If you ask me what I do believe in, I'll say... not a whole lot.

                              I base my perception on probability these days. I can't confirm whether I came to exist through evolution or god magic, but I can observe events taking place in my direct experience and place my bet on the one that seems more likely. For example, I have no direct memory of my own birth. My meat-computer wasn't recording data yet, so I can't KNOW that I came into this world via my mom's uterus and not by god snapping his fingers. But I can observe other humans and animals being born and make an educated guess that I too came into this world the same way. Most people BELIEVE they were born... I BET I was born... I try to BELIEVE as little as possible, because belief is certifiable delusion.

                              The only real belief I have is that I exist. How and why I exist, I can only take educated guesses at. But I am undeniably here, so I can believe in that. Now the past... even the past a few minutes ago in which I wrote all this text, I can only guess that it ever existed based on the data my meat computer can gather. My light sensors are taking in the data encoded in the text, and my memory records say that it was written by me, so I will wager that this post was written by me. But can I KNOW it beyond the slightest doubt? Nope. One could say it's possible that god popped the entire universe, including this post and my memories about it, into existence just one millisecond ago, and there's no denying that it is *possible*. I simply choose to wager my perception on the more likely possibility, that the universe has been here since way before I came along, and that I did indeed write this post minutes ago.

                              As for history revolving around Christ... It also revolved around Allah, Shiva, Anubis, Gaia, and many others... why should I choose Christ over Anubis? Just because Christ is more recent? By that logic, I should believe in the Big Bang and modern science, because it is the most recent theism on the block. Should I choose Christ because the majority does? Well, Islam only lags Christianity by 6%... it's basically a 50/50 between the two. And in any case, the majority has been proven wrong time and time again throughout history. Why should I believe they finally got it right for once?

                              "Why would any sane person devote their whole life the the message of Christ and forfeit their lives for it's teaching???" How do you know they were sane? They didn't even have modern medicine's definitions of mental illnesses back then. They thought things like schizophrenia and autism were devil possession, and would torture the poor person trying to drive the demons out of them. That is a long way from sane, in my perception. Modern people who display no symptoms of mental illness risk their lives just to do cool shit like climbing Mt Everest or wingsuiting down a mountainside. Seems totally believable that a person in primitive times could get it in their head that their carpenter buddy was the son of god and be willing to take a bullet for him. ...except bullets hadn't been invented yet either, that's how primitive these people were.
                              For your information, the early Jews never thought the earth was flat. The LORD revealed unto Enoch who was only 7th from Adam all about the planets and stars and their ORBITS. (Book of Enoch) The "circle" of the earth is mentioned in Isaiah. What Galileo proved mathematically had been known for thousands for years by Hebrews and Egyptians.

                              It sounds like you are a true skeptic, but I encourage you to give Jesus a second chance. There is a really good documentary on youtube called "The History of Christianity" as well which will show you all the corruption, warring, and conflict around the Bible. The chances of the Bible existing today are next to none. It has survived on the basis of a small group of scribes carefully rewriting it line by line. It is an unstoppable force, and will be preached until the end to all.

                              Think about death for a second. There is no other god or religion that will offer you ETERNAL LIFE for simply believing in Jesus Christ as God. There is no other belief that offers forgiveness of sins, and a glorified eternal body in such a way. It is like a sweepstakes that you are guaranteed to win for simply believing in God. If you do research on the religions out there, none go back to the beginning. And actually most of them are complete rip offs of Christianity. Mohammed stole every line from the Bible, when Islam came onto the scene several scholars wrote books about the obvious plagiarisms that took place. I have looked into Buddhism, Hinduism, the Vedas, Taoism, etc, and they are all blind guides... Only one religion has words given by god through man - the prophets, divine revelation, historical lineage, a messiah to save the universe, etc...

                              I cannot prove to you that Jesus Christ is alive and seated at the right hand of the Father. But one day all shall see him, and know that he came as a suffering servant, and came back a king of righteousness, ready to judge the world. Look at what he did when he was on this earth for those short 33 years. He healed people, he walked on water, he fed the hungry, he taught in synagogues, he preached that the poor are blessed, the humble are blessed... He taught righteousness. Read his teachings and tell me that you don't believe. He was tempted as a man, but overcame it and died without sin. Read his words, please, read the sermon on the mount and tell me it doesn't move your heart to the core.
                              PROGRESS GALLERY

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by salamander6773 View Post

                                Mind control eh? Like Communist regimes? The same ones that persecute and seek to destroy Christianity???

                                Look into Japan and the movement of Christianity that was totally obliterated by the government there.

                                For a lot of people Christianity is precious because it offers something more to this hard life on earth. It is a free choice to believe, and has nothing to do with mind control. If you are talking about the rules and laws, most were made to protect the people themselves... Rules about cleanliness and cooking, and what to eat and what not.

                                The ethics of what the bible says, love thy neighbor, love thy enemies, do onto others as you would do onto yourself, love God, honor your father and mother, do not steal, do not kill. Are these laws made only to control you??? Do they not seem like rules which SHOULD be followed as a rational, thinking, and ethical human being???

                                Don't let the corruption of the church ruin the religion. Don't let the religion ruin the truth of Christ. Humans tend to destroy and ruin anything good in life, but don't let them ruin something so pure and true... Read for yourself what Christ preached on the Mount, make your own decisions. Don't let a preacher browbeat you into belief.
                                Nobody browbeat me, that's your projected imagination; perhaps from your personal experience? I've witnessed 'from birth to grave' mind control practiced by the "authorities" in several religions, in several countries of this world, as have many of us, and I'm guessing you have to, so what you are saying is a knowing lie. Yes, it's mind control. An open mind is a threat to those assholes, and always will be. There is a demonstrated history of that, against artists, philosophers, scientists, healers, anyone who lives with the spark to know more. If I had the chance, and if there is a god, I'd run up to great him and kick him in the balls, hard, for some of the shit I've seen occur in the cesspool. Now that would "move (my) heart to the core".

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