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My Response to, "don't you think there are worse problems???"

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  • My Response to, "don't you think there are worse problems???"

    The true human rights abuse is the one not yet widely seen as an abuse. Or bringing it up elicits chuckles or contempt or dismissal. Pretty much all the other "worse problems" you're alluding to are widely recognized as such by society at large. They don't elicit chuckles or dismissiveness when brought up in the context of issues needing to be addressed. I would say that one hallmark feature of a human rights abuse is not yet being widely regarded as such by society at large. Therefore, this is the one that demands we focus our attention rather than "all the other problems" we could give our attention.

  • #2
    It's no secret that circumcision has I'll effects on society as a whole. The documented brain changes alone are huge. Circumcision in infancy interferes with bonding and breast feeding at a time when a newborn should be learn8my to trust and love his parents and the world around him. Instead it's" Welcome to the world, not let's chop off the most sensitive part of his dick with no anesthesia". Ho2 sick is that? So much for trust. Its also documented that cut guys have a more difficult time in relationships and marriage. So many end badly due to bad sex because the guy has been mutilated. Cut guys are also more violent.look at the 3 most violent cultures on this planet. The US, Islam, and Israel. What do the all have in common? CIRCUMCISION!
    So there you have it. Mental issues, violence issues, and a family unit that suffers from the effects of this barbaric practice. The effect it has on society when done on such as large scale is astronomical. This planet will only be at peace when circumcision is dead.

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    • #3
      Yes but still, we must learn to count our blessings, as there are people with less than us and are proud to be alive

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      • #4
        I like to respond by telling folks we actually have the same goals. We waste over 2 billion dollars in America for a needless cosmetic surgery that causes unnecessary suffering. We don't we use that money to house the homeless, cure the sick, and feed the hungry? Genital cutting and other social problems should be viewed together as linked issues.
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        • #5
          I am a strong believer in every individual's right to bodily autonomy, so I am (for example) anti-rape and pro-choice, two other issues that I think are comparable in harm to or perhaps exceeding that of circumcision. I also think that there are economic and other policies that could have a tremendously greater impact on the world than ending circumcision. I'd hate to be forced to make this choice, but ultimately, I would concede that the world would be a better place if, as an explicit tradeoff, all males were circumcised but in return we saw an end to world hunger. There truly is worse suffering out there.

          ​But ending circumcision remains a top priority for me in my social activism. The reason is that it ​should be a no-brainer. Unlike combating disease, ensuring a livable wage for all, promoting racial equality, etc., there is literally nothing keeping us from ending routine infant circumcision tomorrow​ except that parents basically "just feel like doing it". I'm sure many in this forum agree with my sentiment. I lost a large piece of my genitals over absolutely nothing. We don't need to debate about whether a fetus is viable, consent was given or revoked, or certain technological or economic factors stand in the way of change, it's just flat-out, black and white ​wrong to take a knife to a newborn baby.​

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          • #6
            Originally posted by eeeee View Post
            I am a strong believer in every individual's right to bodily autonomy, so I am (for example) anti-rape and pro-choice, two other issues that I think are comparable in harm to or perhaps exceeding that of circumcision. I also think that there are economic and other policies that could have a tremendously greater impact on the world than ending circumcision. I'd hate to be forced to make this choice, but ultimately, I would concede that the world would be a better place if, as an explicit tradeoff, all males were circumcised but in return we saw an end to world hunger. There truly is worse suffering out there.

            ​But ending circumcision remains a top priority for me in my social activism. The reason is that it ​should be a no-brainer. Unlike combating disease, ensuring a livable wage for all, promoting racial equality, etc., there is literally nothing keeping us from ending routine infant circumcision tomorrow​ except that parents basically "just feel like doing it". I'm sure many in this forum agree with my sentiment. I lost a large piece of my genitals over absolutely nothing. We don't need to debate about whether a fetus is viable, consent was given or revoked, or certain technological or economic factors stand in the way of change, it's just flat-out, black and white ​wrong to take a knife to a newborn baby.​
            You aren't pro gun control though, right? I believe in social and religious freedom just as much

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Arjay View Post

              You aren't pro gun control though, right? I believe in social and religious freedom just as much
              ​I'm not interested in debating that on this forum, especially in a general discussion (rather than off topic) thread. Let's stick to issues that the vast majority of us can agree on.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by eeeee View Post

                ...​But ending circumcision remains a top priority for me in my social activism. The reason is that it ​should be a no-brainer. Unlike combating disease, ensuring a livable wage for all, promoting racial equality, etc., there is literally nothing keeping us from ending routine infant circumcision tomorrow​ except that parents basically "just feel like doing it". I'm sure many in this forum agree with my sentiment. I lost a large piece of my genitals over absolutely nothing. We don't need to debate about whether a fetus is viable, consent was given or revoked, or certain technological or economic factors stand in the way of change, it's just flat-out, black and white ​wrong to take a knife to a newborn baby.​
                It's a no-brainer only if you aren't involving your brain. There are many reasons why circ cannot be ended "tomorrow" (your word), so I can't agree with that sentiment, and I've been an opponent of RIC for many years (like another member on the old forum, I've given in-service talks to some of the professionals involved, which by the way put my profession on the line at times). So, not only is it not a no-brainer, this kind of thinking is entirely in a person's brain, and not in any way a description of the real world. A person can't use hyperbole to discuss the real world issues of circ because hyperbole is never true, and it isn't effective in an argument (in fact it's recognized as failure), unless of course that person only wants head nodding here on this site (and no discussion) from that "vast majority" on this small forum. Any true intactivist has to research, ask questions, and speak from a basic knowledge-base of the beast.

                Let me to offer you and the general readers an example: trying to hang the whole process on just "parents" (which you've done above), is of course largely false. Parents are the least of the challenge in this. Here's the thing: as an intactivist one actually has to (and absolutely should) side with parents, in a number of ways, rather than making an excluding assumption, putting them on one side and only you and hyperbole on the other. The vast majority (: )) of parents are trying their best in decision making. They want facts, so that's what you have to give them. The other 90% of the issue has to be addressed in the real world, with real answers to the real questions having to do with all of the influences on the issue, and there are many of them, most of them much more influential.
                Last edited by Info; 04-20-2016, 08:47 PM.

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