First Day Of Cross-Taping

[_Starr]

lately I’ve been tugging, but haven’t been tugging for long periods of time due to my crazy work schedule so I’ve been looking into Taping. My uniform pants are extra fitted so T-Taping isn’t an option for me. I found cross taping. Oh top of this being my first time cross taping this is also my first time wearing it at work. I feel like I’m not tugging long enough and think this might aid me so. I’ve also added pictures to hear what everyone’s input. I’m CI-3 (or I think I am) I don’t measure FEC because I don’t want to overwhelm myself nor do I want to get discouraged. But it’s coming along lol
KOT guys KOT

[greg_b]

What makes you feel like you are not tugging long enough?

I have found that the length of time tugging is pretty irrelevant, far more important is to get the tension right. I will not that manual tuggers do fine with very little time under tension.

Regards,

gb

[Reality]

And I'll add:

Cross taping doesn't place enough tension on skin to work as a tugging method. Cross taping was never meant as a method for tugging. Instead it's a method for retaining only. I suppose you can get a minimal (very minimal) tension effect if you pack the tube (you didn't mention packing), but even then that's quickly reduced to zero in a very short time, with virtually no effect at stimulating mitosis.

As greg says, it's all about the correct range of tension, and if I may, I'll restate his words in mine: cycles of "sweet spot" tension. Do sets of cycles (in the range of "good" tension, not "long" tension, and you don't need many sets if the tension is right) maybe a couple of times per day, and that will work for skin growth, so ...... at home before work, and/or at home after work. Work doesn't have to be a problem at all.

To address the larger group, but not to start another war, it is never about tension for a "long" time, as in hours (obviously skin has to be under tension for a period of time, but a much shorter period). "Long" and "hours" is a newbie impression (a myth, really) that gets passed along from one newbie to the next. Instead, it's about tension which deforms skin just beyond its natural physiological stretch limit, doing this in an "on" and "off" cycle, then a number of these cycles. Deforming (or "stretching") skin beyond its built-in natural limit, for a short time, has been scientifically proven. This action is what calls up those biochemical factors which actually cause mitosis/skin growth.

[_Starr]

Thank you guys. That makes a lot of sense. No I haven’t reached the stage where I can pack yet. I just got comfortable not too long ago wearing my Tugger. So yeah I think this will be a good way to retain till I get to my Tugger. But I also manually tug when time permits.

[greg_b]

And I'll add:

... it's about tension which deforms skin just beyond its natural physiological stretch limit, doing this in an "on" and "off" cycle, then a number of these cycles. Deforming (or "stretching") skin beyond its built-in natural limit, for a short time, has been scientifically proven. This action is what calls up those biochemical factors which actually cause mitosis/skin growth.

Excellent and very well stated point. Very nice to draw a clear link from tension to what we want the cells to do.

This is a very useful way to state what it is that we do, and it leads me to pondering some fine tuning I can do to better accomplish this.

Thanks Reality!

[_Starr]

Since I’ve gotten comfortable wearing my Tugger during a 4 hour period. It was suggested that I wear it 10 to 12 hours.

How does everyone feel about this? Granted I am partially a noob. I’ve been manually tugging for years on and off so I’ve got slack. I just assumed that since I’m not tugging enough and didn’t get a device until recent, that I would have been further along had I had one then. My skin cone fits like a tailored suit. Lol I can wear it with and without the strap.

What are your thoughts on the TLCX I have the standard TLC

[_Starr]

[greg_b]

I have written how I feel about simply adding more time under tension. It is not the time under tension that is important. I would argue that shorter times, are just as effective. I would also say that, as Reality suggested, several short times during the day are probably more effective than simply lengthening the amount of time under tension. It will be at least as effective in my experience.

When I started out, I tried to achieve 24/7/365. Had great growth...at times...other times almost no growth. I finally saw a pattern and paid attention to my tension level. At the same time, shortened my tugging to 4-6 hours, 4 days a week. Had great progress all the time form then on.

Later, I decided to experiment with inflation and even shorter time periods. I went to 20 minutes, twice a day, 5 days a week. Had even better progress, but attribute the better progress to the balloons ability to more effectively apply tension to more skin area.

If you look at my experience, and only consider time, shorter is better. But the amount of tension is the key.

Regards

[_Starr]

Other than the few people I’ve talked to here, I’ve also talked to Ron Lowe. Before I decided to post here on the site I’d contact him first and look around for what info could back it up.

The reason as to why I’m so adamant about lengthy periods of tugging is because I do not have time to sit and manually tug in bursts or periods because I work a sporadic schedule.
I find that I get pretty good tension with the strap.

[PalloTown18]

WARNING: Psuedo-science about to ensue.

I've had pretty decent success with manual tugging and off and on throw on a device for about three hours. I would think (PSEUDO SCIENCE) that if one wants to wear a device all day, then you would need to apply only the lightest amount of tension. It reminds me of when you gain weight, whether fat or muscle, your body grows more skin tissue in order to accommodate the body mass growth, the body mass triggering the skin to grow. However, I have never seen my weight gain occur such that the amount of tension new muscle or fat puts on my skin is visible in the way that is with tugging on my foreskin, thus I would assume devices need to be worn for a long time at very very light tension.

But I really have no idea. It's all experimental and personal guess!

[_Starr]

WARNING: Psuedo-science about to ensue.

I've had pretty decent success with manual tugging and off and on throw on a device for about three hours. I would think (PSEUDO SCIENCE) that if one wants to wear a device all day, then you would need to apply only the lightest amount of tension. It reminds me of when you gain weight, whether fat or muscle, your body grows more skin tissue in order to accommodate the body mass growth, the body mass triggering the skin to grow. However, I have never seen my weight gain occur such that the amount of tension new muscle or fat puts on my skin is visible in the way that is with tugging on my foreskin, thus I would assume devices need to be worn for a long time at very very light tension.

But I really have no idea. It's all experimental and personal guess!

Makes a great deal of sense. When I wear my Tugger for periods of time the tension usually isn’t extremely high. Just enough for me to remember I’m still wearing a device.

[greg_b]

...

The reason as to why I’m so adamant about lengthy periods of tugging is because I do not have time to sit and manually tug in bursts or periods because I work a sporadic schedule.
I find that I get pretty good tension with the strap.

Lets break this out. You do not have time to tug for short periods manually, but you have the time to do a short bit of stuff at the beginning of the day, and at the end. so it seems to you that tugging for long periods takes less time. Perhaps, but I think it is more along the lines of what Reality said above, you can put it on and forget about it while it does its work.

Let me offer another way to achieve your goal, if you have enough skin for a device. I am using inflation now. Currently once a day, but previously twice a day. Let me describe the twice a day regimen, and you can think about how much trouble that is compared to what you think a long all day tug will require. I put the device on just before I eat breakfast, then remove it just before I brush my teeth in the morning. Put it on just before I eat dinner, then remove it after dinner. Putting it on takes a minute, taking it off 20 seconds. That is it. Once a week I replace the balloon, which takes all of 5 minutes or less. That is it. Simple. Easy. I do not have to think about it except when attaching, inflating to the proper tension, and removing.

I will add that I have nothing to do when I need to pee or poop to accommodate a device, since I am only wearing it for 20 minutes. I do not have to adjust things, as I go about my day, because I am not wearing anything. I do not have to refrain from any activities, or make special preparations, because I am not wearing anything. Hard for me to see how your regimen is any better than mine.

And, you can do the same with any device, it does not have to be inflation. And device can be used the same way.

If you are concerned about how much trouble manual is, well I get that, and recognize not everyone will do manual. But there is nothing about a device that requires long periods of time under tension either. the tension is tension. Manual does not do some different type of tension, it just requires you to be more hands on.

The point of this post is to simply point out that your apparent belief that manual can be done for short time periods while devices cannot is not supported by theory or evidence. Nor is the idea that long periods of time are superior to short periods. Time is largely irrelevant, as far as I can tell. That is not to say there are not many restorers who have been very successful with long periods of time under tension. Just like a gun's trigger, you can continue holding it as long as you want, but it makes little difference to the result.

Regards

[_Starr]

Lets break this out. You do not have time to tug for short periods manually, but you have the time to do a short bit of stuff at the beginning of the day, and at the end. so it seems to you that tugging for long periods takes less time. Perhaps, but I think it is more along the lines of what Reality said above, you can put it on and forget about it while it does its work.

Let me offer another way to achieve your goal, if you have enough skin for a device. I am using inflation now. Currently once a day, but previously twice a day. Let me describe the twice a day regimen, and you can think about how much trouble that is compared to what you think a long all day tug will require. I put the device on just before I eat breakfast, then remove it just before I brush my teeth in the morning. Put it on just before I eat dinner, then remove it after dinner. Putting it on takes a minute, taking it off 20 seconds. That is it. Once a week I replace the balloon, which takes all of 5 minutes or less. That is it. Simple. Easy. I do not have to think about it except when attaching, inflating to the proper tension, and removing.

I will add that I have nothing to do when I need to pee or poop to accommodate a device, since I am only wearing it for 20 minutes. I do not have to adjust things, as I go about my day, because I am not wearing anything. I do not have to refrain from any activities, or make special preparations, because I am not wearing anything. Hard for me to see how your regimen is any better than mine.

And, you can do the same with any device, it does not have to be inflation. And device can be used the same way.

If you are concerned about how much trouble manual is, well I get that, and recognize not everyone will do manual. But there is nothing about a device that requires long periods of time under tension either. the tension is tension. Manual does not do some different type of tension, it just requires you to be more hands on.

The point of this post is to simply point out that your apparent belief that manual can be done for short time periods while devices cannot is not supported by theory or evidence. Nor is the idea that long periods of time are superior to short periods. Time is largely irrelevant, as far as I can tell. That is not to say there are not many restorers who have been very successful with long periods of time under tension. Just like a gun's trigger, you can continue holding it as long as you want, but it makes little difference to the result.

Regards

Makes a great deal of sense. I'm usually wearing my tugger twice a day, in the morning before I go to work, probably 3 or 4 hours and when I come home. 2 to 3. You're correct about time being irrelevant as I've seen some guys get growth in 4 to 6 months and others get it a year, year and a half down the line.

I've looked into inflation a time or two and I don't think it's for me as I don't have quite enough slack skin. I have enough to tug manually and wear a skin cone. I try to wear it almost every day but that work schedule won't let me be great ! I've been trying to pick up a routine for it, but I cant seem to form an official one (for myself that is)

[PalloTown18]

This has got to be the craziest hobby any of us have ever had.

[PalloTown18]

Reality, how can we compare this to when doctors insert inflatable balloons under the skin to encourage skin growth? That's a constant tension that is not adjusted.