Standing versus sitting

[Menthol]

I'm using the TLC-X with a weight only these days. No manual tugging as I've found it difficult to judge the amount of tension I need - simply put, I exert too much force all too easily. With the TLC-X that isn't a problem so long as I apply it correctly: if there's any discomfort or pain at all after putting it on I'll re-do it. And the force of a weight is easier to judge for me than a strap as well - it tends to be too weak or too strong (read: soreness and sometimes small skin tears).

Now one thing I've noticed is that while standing there's so much more wrinkling after a while of wearing the tugger, compared to sitting. It seems even if I try to adjust my position it's, relatively speaking, far less effective.

Any folks here have any similar experience? Any advice with regards to what I could try? I'd love to be able to get better tension even if I need to sit.
If someone has a suggestion regarding my issues with a strap that could be helpful as well, as I figure it might also be a more general aspect of how I'm wearing the device.

[Reality]

It's a little difficult to follow your post, but I don't understand why you can't judge the amount of tension you "need" with manual. Manual gives you the ability to adjust tension right there, right then. What would stand in the way of that? Manual is the most direct method there is. You won't find anything else that does this, everything else is less direct. But you've written it off by saying that you are giving yourself "too much force all too easily". You tear your own skin? The obvious solution is dial it back and use smaller increases. In other words, manual is you; your fingers, your sensation, your skin, and your skin's response. There isn't anything else involved, and you don't need anything else for success, other than tension in cycles.

Maybe with your use of the phrase "tension I need", you're assuming that you need a specific amount? You don't. That doesn't exist for us (not without expensive lab equipment). You only need enough tension to stimulate your skin's natural response to add a few cells beyond it's maintenance rate. So there is most likely an effective range of tension that will work as a stimulus. No measuring is needed (or possible). "Better tension" is a phrase you've used. There isn't any such thing as "better". There is only 'enough tension'. Tension is just tension; there's nothing magic about it. It doesn't do anything but 'wake' the skin's response. Gives it a kick in butt. That's it.

We do this thing "in the dark" (as D said years ago), so some playing around with it is needed. But one thing is clear: the device or method isn't the important part of tugging. Those are means to an end. They all do the same thing. Every suggestion you get in this thread will all do the same thing. It's only about enough tension to stimulate the response, somewhere between too mild (where your skin doesn't have to respond) on one end of the range, and physically harmful to your skin on the other end. Guys have been working within this range for decades, with great success. And no harm.

[parsecskin]

Yep, manual is EXTREMELY effective. Its just inconvenient as hell. Basically you want to.go to the elastic limit of your skin plus a little more. It should not cause pain or damage. If it does, you're using too much. A little mild soreness is ok as long as it's gone the next morning. Get r done!

[Menthol]

I'll try to put better into context what I mean by what "tension I need". It's about having a sense of what I'm doing. To my mind grabbing a bit of skin without seeing or feeling a specific result automatically makes me think "not enough". This is why a device makes things easier for me, because I'm not going to expect results right away, but say a couple of hours in. To be clear, this is ultimately about perception: I'm not arguing the efficiency of one method over another, but what works for me, subjectively as well as effectively.

Case in point, when I would use manual methods for a bit. And I might see a little bit of a change in skin texture. By nature it's difficult to mimic the exact movements every time I tug, so next time I might not be sure if I've done it properly, and perhaps subconsciously exert more force. When that happens I usually don't get sore right away, so I'm not likely to realize my mistake. Consequently I'll repeat my mistake once or twice until I actually get sore or even tears and must take a break.
Comparing the "result" using a device, a tugger applied a certain way, will always give me a certain type of wrinkling, and it will or won't be sore, depending on how I apply it. There's little variation as I'll be leaving it in place for some time. That fundamentally differs from manual methods. And, I've never achieved a similar kind of "heavy wrinkling" by just manual methods. This is what I'm referring to, "enough" and "better tension".

I guess this might be the most personal detail of the whole process - how do you figure out for yourself what's "satisfying" in terms of tugging? At what point does it become second nature, rather than second-guessing?

[Reality]

Let's see if I can help:

You are beginning, and continuing, with an assumption. A misconception, really. You expect to see the result, either now, or soon after an application of tension. You can't, not on the level of growth. Whatever you see now, or soon after, is an illusion, not actual growth. Your skin can show a number of presentations, now or soon after, and none of them are growth. You've stimulated your skin with that tension. But it hasn't responded. Not now, or soon after. So your misconception of how this all works is based in a misconception of the time it takes for skin's response, and how long after that response anything happens. It will never be now, or soon after.

Secondly, you expect to control growth, or influence it in some way. Again, you can't. You never will. When I say your skin does it all, I'm referring to the rules of enforced mitosis. Enforced mitosis involves your skin responding to an 'irritant', ie tension. That response isn't a result of thinking about it, with your brain. It depends on a complex, and poorly understood process completely separate from, "you" and your thoughts, and you and you immediate actions.

That's just the truth of it. It's wonderful truth, means you don't have to sweat anything, just tug. You are sweating, though, more than a lot of guys. Don't. Give up. You can spin your wheels all you want, you're free to, but it won't make any difference. It is out of your control. That's the single hardest fact for most restorers to face, even though it's the best new you can hear.

You use the term "satisfying". I'm glad you did. It illustrates an important point. There are perennial fetishists on restoration forums. Fetishes about this or that, mostly because dicks and sex are involved peripherally. But the strongest fetish, the single hardest fetish to see as a fetish, on forums (and elsewhere, for that matter) is the illusion of control. When some guy here says this method or schedule, or device is the 'one way', he's really appealing to your inability to give up control. And he's bullshitting you. The only control you have, is to tug, or not. That's it. So relax, give up, tug. You will see everything you wanted to see, and more. But it will be down the road, and only in the rear view mirror. Never here and now. That's how it works.

This is a promise. But you won't see any sort of control over the process, and believe me, as much as you want to, you really don't, because none of us are in any way up to it. Nature is, though. You'll see what Nature wants to give you: viable, functional, healthy tissue. A much better proposition.

[ctrclckws]

I also use weights attached to my tugging devices. My job involves sitting all day.
Recommendations : Loose pants. A long enough attachment method so that the weight hangs over the edge of the chair.
amount of weight. I have 8 oz, 10oz, 15oz, and 20oz weights that I have made using eye-bolts and fender washers with a nut to hold it together. Then I have a safety strap just in case.

I've walked for 4-5 hours with the 10 and 15 oz setup before I needed to reset.