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  • New restoration member here ;-)

    Hi,

    I'm Sean, a new member here and I have just started restoring today, as the DTR device arrived today. I'm from Israel, and as you probably know, jews get circumcised at the age of 8 days (!) old baybies as a religious costum. I think it's an barbaric costum, and as a secular jew, I guess I won't circumcise my children. I'm really exexcited to restore my foreskin and to beat that cruel costum.
    I have got a few questions:
    1)I'm using only the DTR bell for now because I don't think I have enough skin to use the full kit (with the push plate).
    2)Is it enough tension only with the bell tugging?
    3)Do you think I can go straight to long periods like 8 hours. Do I have to do breaks? How often?
    4)I find it difficult to "catch" all the skin evenly inside the grilper, as you see in the last picture. What can iI do about it?
    I will share the "before" (never was restoring before) pictures with you.




    ​​​​​
    Last edited by Sean300; 03-08-2018, 04:29 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Reality
    Actual truth:

    1. If you aren't placing tension on your skin then you aren't tugging. If you are only wearing a device with no tension placed on your skin, then ... you aren't applying tension. Just wearing a device, with no tension placed on your skin, is completely ineffective.

    2. The only effective form of tension takes the form of a cycle. Cycles of tension are what stimulate your skin to begin to add more cells to itself.

    3. "Long periods like 8 hours" has nothing to do with effective cycles. An effective cycle is an "on", and an "off". In other words, this would be a noticeable amount of tension placed "on" for a short amount of time, and then a release of that tension, for a short period of time. And then you do this again, to equal another cycle. Doing several cycles at a time becomes a "set" of cycles. Doing several sets per day is what gets your skin to begin to add cells. You get to choose how many cycles, and how many sets you perform each day.

    4. No one, no user of a device, and no user of a manual method (fingers) can apply tension for 8 hours. That's impractical, and essentially impossible. And if that WERE even possible, placing constant tension on your skin would stop the process of adding cells. Science has proven that.

    Effective tugging is never about "long periods of time". The concept of "hours" is a restoration forum myth which is getting more play lately from a group of newbies. It doesn't exist in the real world. You can certainly apply tension with a device, but that tension naturally drops off. Your skin begins to stretch, to counter act that tension. So you have to readjust the tension. The moment you readjust tension, that equals a cycle, so of course a device can do this. The downside is, if you are using a device then this can become problematic in public areas, work areas, etc, because you have to take your pants down to readjust the tension. You can do this in a restroom stall, so it isn't impossible. But trips to the stall are time consuming, and more importantly, you are only doing one cycle between readjustments.

    5. If what I've written here seems contrary to what you expected, then that isn't a surprise to me. What I've written here is true, though. A lot of nonsense, such as the "hours" myth, gets passed along by forum members who are also beginners. They pass along only what they've read from other beginners (and in some cases they just make things up), rather than what they've found to be true for themselves. They believe that a device does all the work. It absolutely doesn't. But these believers don't have the experience to know that because they actually aren't anywhere yet in this long process.
    So how to put a "noticeable" amount of tension with the device if i dont have enough skin for the push plate to use the elastics? I have to use the elastic strap attaches to the leg for it?

    Comment


    • #3
      Well, I will add that the taping methods are also an excellent way to start out too.

      And, by "noticeable" is meant enough to feel it, but short of pain. It is something you have to learn to judge for yourself. And experiment with to find the amount of tension that gives you the best growth. I always suggest starting at low tension, get used to that, then increase slightly and see how that goes for a while. Repeat as needed.

      Regards

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by greg_b View Post
        Well, I will add that the taping methods are also an excellent way to start out too.

        And, by "noticeable" is meant enough to feel it, but short of pain. It is something you have to learn to judge for yourself. And experiment with to find the amount of tension that gives you the best growth. I always suggest starting at low tension, get used to that, then increase slightly and see how that goes for a while. Repeat as needed.

        Regards
        Manual and taping seem to be a big headache.. Don't you think that maybe TLC-X will fit me? It looks abit shorter than the DTR. And I think that I have enough slack skin for it. I estimate CI-2.

        Comment


        • #5
          No, I do not think you will find that you have enough skin for the TLC-X. But I have never tried one. The methods I have used are: Canister, t-tape strips with insert, and inflation.

          The canister I discarded quickly for a few reasons, but it is a very good method.

          T-tape strips was my mainstay for a long time. I created a set of directions:

          http://www.restoringforeskin.org/ima...llustrated.pdf

          I switched to inflation and have not looked back, but then, by the time I tired inflation, I had enough skin. You do not yet have enough.

          I understand not wanting to do manual, I never seemed to engage with it either. But it is the easiest, cheapest, least amount of work method that I have seen. So it is a very good choice.

          But if you cannot engage with manual, I would suggest a taping method, including the canister method, and including reverse taping. All the taping, canister, and reverse taping methods share the characteristic you might like about a device, put them on and forget about them. There downside is that they take time to remove, so can inhibit spontaneous sex and other activities. I get that, but there is always a trade off. You have to decide which things to trade off in favor of others, no?

          Hope that helps, keep asking questions!



          Comment


          • #6
            Of course he has enough skin for the TLC X. If he can get a DTR on, the TLC X will be a breeze.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by parsecskin View Post
              Of course he has enough skin for the TLC X. If he can get a DTR on, the TLC X will be a breeze.
              I forgot that his original post said he was using the DTR. He may have enough skin, one way to find out, give it a try. And I see no no downside to trying it, other than spending the money. If it doesn't fit, he can always put it on the shelf until he grows enough skin to be able to use it.

              Regards

              Comment


              • #8
                Yea it looks like you could fit a tlc-x pretty easily. The tlc has a pusher that when no tension is applied it seats inside the main cone so it should be easier to get on than the DTR. I wear the tlc for anywhere from 4-6 hours a day and I have been making good results and I understand that you don't want to mess around with devices or manual tugging because it can get frustrating and it's easy to neglect tugging if it gets too complicated. I'd say order the tlc and maybe also use the film canister method if the tlc doesn't fit good at the beginning and remember to keep on tugging

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi,
                  Update: As I have already mentioned, because of my tight circumcision, I can't yet use the dual tension DTR, so I have been using only the bell (without the push plate) as a retainer. I think that as a beginner with tight circumcision it produces enough tension. But I decided to add some tension with weights - I bought today some washers and and put then on the rod with a key's ring to lock them in place.
                  My question is how much weight do you think I should start with? I know about the 4 hours rule. But I would be glad if you estimated approximately how much (every washer is 5 grams).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sean300 View Post
                    Hi,
                    Update: As I have already mentioned, because of my tight circumcision, I can't yet use the dual tension DTR, so I have been using only the bell (without the push plate) as a retainer. I think that as a beginner with tight circumcision it produces enough tension. But I decided to add some tension with weights - I bought today some washers and and put then on the rod with a key's ring to lock them in place.
                    My question is how much weight do you think I should start with? I know about the 4 hours rule. But I would be glad if you estimated approximately how much (every washer is 5 grams).
                    When I experimented with weights, I just looked for the feeling that I had that indicated optimal tension for growth. I mostly used 8 ounce weights. But I found that they got trapped by my pants, so did not seem to be doing much. Since you are starting out, you will have to get a feel for it yourself.

                    FYI, you can use the gripper in several different ways, probably. As a retainer, with weights, with straps, hand pulling it...

                    Regards

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Seán300. You asked about tug tension. I used conventional T-tape with about 0.75kg got with strained elastic strap down to foot level.
                      Tormod

                      Some of you may have had occasion to run into mathematicians and to wonder therefore how they got that way - Tom Lehrer

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hey. I tried yesterday to apply the dtr with few washers and I noticed that I couldn't bear it as long. after 2 hours I started feeling some stinging/paresthesia sensation. Today I tried it with less weight and I could bear it even less time- half an hour.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sean300 View Post
                          Hey. I tried yesterday to apply the dtr with few washers and I noticed that I couldn't bear it as long. after 2 hours I started feeling some stinging/paresthesia sensation. Today I tried it with less weight and I could bear it even less time- half an hour.
                          My experience is that longer periods of tension are not any better than short periods. The amount of tension is the important thing. Whether you can wear it comfortably for 2 hrs or more or not is only helpful if you want to wear it for long periods. Think about how long manual tuggers keep tension on. Think about how a trigger works. The theory we are working under is that tension triggers a series of physiological processes that result in more skin. Once those processes are triggered, the rest is like watching grass grow.

                          Get the amount of tension optimized for growing skin and you can make things a lot easier on yourself, which you have implied is important to you. For example, I apply tension for only 20 minutes, twice a day. I do it while eating my breakfast and dinner. Nothing to do other than that. In my experience, it doesn't get much easier than that.

                          YMMV

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by greg_b View Post

                            My experience is that longer periods of tension are not any better than short periods. The amount of tension is the important thing. Whether you can wear it comfortably for 2 hrs or more or not is only helpful if you want to wear it for long periods. Think about how long manual tuggers keep tension on. Think about how a trigger works. The theory we are working under is that tension triggers a series of physiological processes that result in more skin. Once those processes are triggered, the rest is like watching grass grow.

                            Get the amount of tension optimized for growing skin and you can make things a lot easier on yourself, which you have implied is important to you. For example, I apply tension for only 20 minutes, twice a day. I do it while eating my breakfast and dinner. Nothing to do other than that. In my experience, it doesn't get much easier than that.

                            YMMV
                            I hope that few hours of high tension is equal for less tension for longer period. Because I always see people talk about 8 or even 12 hours. Btw, currently I am using about 250 gr.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sean300 View Post

                              I hope that few hours of high tension is equal for less tension for longer period. Because I always see people talk about 8 or even 12 hours. Btw, currently I am using about 250 gr.
                              You do not have to hope. You can find out for yourself:

                              Tug at low tension for long periods for 3 months or so, evaluate your progress.

                              Then try short periods of higher tension for 3 months or so.

                              Compare progress between the two, and you will know. If you can't tell, then either repeat, or accept that they are the same.

                              BUT, more importantly, I am NOT saying short periods with HIGH tension. This is important, so pay attention. I am saying that time is largely irrelevant. The key is using the right amount of tension. Optimal tension. Optimal does NOT equal high or low. It is the best tension for you to grow skin. If low tension works best for you to grow skin, use low tension. But I will argue that you do NOT need long time periods of tension. let me try saying it this way:

                              Use low tension for long or short periods, it will be equally ineffective or effective. It all depends upon whether "low" tension is effective for you to grow skin. No one knows what "low" is, what "high" is. All we have to go on are the ambiguous words we read on here.

                              How do you find the optimal amount of tension for YOU to grow skin?

                              Well, you might just stumble upon it. Many do. You might causally try things and find something that seems to work and keep doing that. Never change a winning strategy, eh?

                              Or, you can, by systematic and thoughtful experimenting, find the optimal tension. To do that, you need to be able to do two things. First, keep tension at the same amount every time you tug. Second, see progress when it occurs. If you can do both, then all you need to do is:

                              Try a given amount of progress for 3 months or so and judge progress.

                              Try a second amount of tension for 3 months or so and judge progress.

                              Which was better? Are you happy with your progress? Keep doing that.

                              Not happy? Can't tell which was better?

                              Try another tension level for 3 months or so and judge progress.

                              Keep experimenting until you know what level of tension is best for you.

                              BTW, 3 months is no magic number, the length of time needed for each trial is simply enough time to have confidence that you will see progress if it occurs. Use whatever amount of time works for you. I think 3 months is enough to give you good confidence that you will see progress if it is occurring. But you may find less is adequate. Or more. It depends upon how sensitive you are to judging progress.

                              Regards

                              Comment

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